Disclaimer: This is transcribed using AI. Expect (funny) errors.
Mindy Peterson: [00:00:00] I’m Mindy Peterson and this is Enhance Life with Music, where we explore the ways music makes our lives better and spotlight the resources you can use to enhance your life with music. My guest today is Renee Fleming, who needs no introduction to most of us. She is one of the most highly acclaimed singers of our time, performing on the stages of the world’s greatest concert venues. Renee has been honored with the US National Medal of Arts and five Grammy Awards. She has sung for the Nobel Peace Prize ceremony and the Super Bowl, and she is a leading advocate for research at the intersection of arts and health. Her latest crucial contribution to this burgeoning field is a new book that just released today called Music and Mind: Harnessing the Arts for Health and Wellness. This book is a curated collection of essays from leading scientists, artists and educators that explores the powerful impacts of music and the arts on health and the human experience. Congratulations on your book release and welcome to Enhance Life with Music, Renee.
Renee Fleming: [00:01:09] Thank you, Mindy, it’s great to be here.
Mindy Peterson: [00:01:11] Great to have you here. For me, your book makes me feel like a kid in a candy store. There are so many contributing authors who have been guests on this podcast, and I love the comprehensive nature of the book. It addresses the benefits of music in so many different facets of life. I also love the cross-disciplinary nature of the book. The essay authors include not only professional musicians, but scientists, medical doctors, and author Ann Patchett. Can you tell us more about who this book is for, who your intended audience is, and what your goal is for the book?
Renee Fleming: [00:01:48] Thank you for asking. Um, so the book, you know, I’ve been so stunned by being part of this world, in this new field that is exploding as we speak, because because of technology and the ability for for scientists to look at the brain and learn so much more about who we are as human beings and why music and the arts are so impactful in our lives. So I just wanted to share my enthusiasm with the public. And it also it’s a gift really, to the people who are working, who’ve been doing this work for most of their careers, uh, to kind of say, hey, I want to get this message out to the public. The music loving public, but also the artistic, loving public, scientists, doctors. Frankly, one of the hardest things with new research is dissemination is getting the research to the public. So the more we can kind of work on that. I consider myself an advocate really more than anything, and working now with the World Health Organization as well as a as an ambassador, has been also exciting to think about this in a global context and context.
Mindy Peterson: [00:02:58] Yeah. Well, you have such a great point that all of the medical technology is really allowing this field to explode. I think artists and musicians are not surprised by the research that’s coming to light with all of this new technology, but it’s really giving us a platform for what we’ve known all along is true in terms of the impact of the arts and music on health and well-being, and it’s taking that knowledge from sort of a soft science to more of a proven scientific reality for a lot of people. So, um, that has definitely played a role in this field, really exploding in terms of public awareness and becoming more mainstream with medical professionals, which is really exciting. Uh, your book really gives a great overview of this field to people who aren’t already familiar with it, and even people who are familiar with it. It’s very comprehensive, so there’s something to learn for everybody in it, for sure. Tell us a little bit about the main sections of the book, how it’s organized. And also if there’s a particular section or chapter that has an especially close to home personal impact for you.
Renee Fleming: [00:04:09] Well, I organized it kind of as it made sense to me. The first thing that I really needed to understand was, why are scientists looking at this? Because I assumed they had better things to do. And and then I discovered, really, that the science of evolution, which points to the fact that, for instance, um, you know, music probably predated speech in, in, in, in us, in humans. And so that explains a lot. I mean, when we think about how we don’t evolve quickly, you know, we’re 10,000 years behind what’s happening in the world, at least. And in terms of our brain’s ability to keep up with the nature of what’s happening right now in terms of especially technology. And I’m talking about the technology that we’re bombarded with every day, not the technology that’s enabling us to understand. More about who we are. So, uh, so I started with evolution. I started with kind of an introduction to the brain, uh, with Dan Levitin. Evolution with Ani Patel, um, Francis Collins. So that’s an important point to the fact that the NIH, which is the largest funder of biomedical research in the world, is now funding the research.
Mindy Peterson: [00:05:20] That’s been, I’ll just point out quick for our international listeners that NIH is the National Institute of Health here in the US.
Renee Fleming: [00:05:27] Yes. And there it’s a game changer that they’re now funding the research. It means it’s there’s a seriousness to it and a and a real potential in, you know, I would love to see it embedded in health care across the board. Um, so I made a I gave a speech recently where I started with, you know, I want to see the commercial that says, ask your doctor if music therapy is right for you.
Mindy Peterson: [00:05:48] Love it. Yeah, I’d love to see that air.
Renee Fleming: [00:05:51] So then, um, we go to kind of hospital settings and there’s amazing work being done and. Well, first of all, I, one of my favorite researchers is Jacquelyn Kulinski , who’s discovered that singing actually, um, improves endothelial markers for people with in some form of cardiac failure.
Mindy Peterson: [00:06:16] So that was one of my favorite chapters. I will confess I haven’t finished it yet. It’s very comprehensive. It’s how many pages?
Renee Fleming: [00:06:22] But it’s but it’s interesting.
Mindy Peterson: [00:06:24] Oh yes, and I’m not willing to skim through it because I want to read every single word but go on. Her chapter was one of my favorites.
Renee Fleming: [00:06:32] Yeah, because it’s so surprising. In fact, there’s a lot of research all of a sudden around singing. Another surprise for me. This is not in the book because it’s newer to me, but that women with postpartum depression improve tremendously if they sing in a choir. Mhm. So I mean I would that surprised me too. I would never have expected that that would have an effect on something so intractable and painful. Mhm. Um, so, so we go to hospitals, then we go to some artists, friends of mine, Ann Patchett, Ben Folds. Um, the Kennedy Center has a fabulous chapter. They do so much work in this area the public’s not even aware of. So, uh, Carnegie Hall, uh, we have statistics on education. There’s a there’s a section on education, on music education, arts education, uh, and how it benefits young children. Theater. Anna Deavere Smith writes about theater. Um, there are systems in our urban areas that have been extremely beneficial to, to youth who are sometimes, uh, in crisis. So El Sistema is one in, um, Philadelphia and another is in New York City with a choir. And these are these are visionary young people who say, I want to change my community and they do it. So it’s inspirational. Then music therapy we have that. We have a deep dive into some of the scientific ideas and research. Uh, and, and then we have the future. Yo-Yo Ma is rights and so many wonderful people. Um, it’s a book called Your Brain on Art that was a best seller last year, and it’s written by Susan Magsamen and, uh, Ivy Ross, which I love.
Mindy Peterson: [00:08:20] Susan was a guest on this podcast discussing her book.
Renee Fleming: [00:08:22] She’s so great. And, and I work with her on her Neuroarts blueprint. I’m a huge fan and her her vision is much broader than music. Um, it’s a bigger umbrella, including nature, including a lot of things I love theater, um, visual arts. So I become the poster child for neuro arts because I’m so much happier now that I’m allowing myself to have these experiences and do things I enjoy even reading. Sure. So, um, so the book is broad. It’s very broad. It’s you can sit down and kind of just read some things and come back to it. It’s it’s not kind of a cover to cover type book. Sure.
Mindy Peterson: [00:09:02] Or if there’s one section that really piques your interest, you could certainly jump to that. It’s not something that needs to be read chronologically. So as you mentioned, there’s sections on therapeutic benefits, basic science, connecting arts and health, brain function, childhood development, technology. So lots of different sections. And as you mentioned, many fabulous, fabulous authors of each of these sections. Many of them have been guests on this podcast, and I’ll include links to those episodes in the show notes. Was there a particular section or chapter that was had a special significance to you personally?
Renee Fleming: [00:09:36] Um, I would say I was just going to I wanted to point out one chapter that blew me away, and that was Rosanne Cash, um, talking frankly about the horrible health crisis that she had and getting through it. Yeah. Uh, I there are chapters that will make you cry. I’m a big fan of Tom Schweitzer, who’s a music therapist, um, who’s not lives not far from here. Who’s worked with a young man who had a traumatic brain injury while snowboarding without a helmet, and his recovery, I mean, so there it’s there’s a lot of moving material in the book that I think people wouldn’t expect. Agree. And so those those chapters tend to really move the needle for someone like me, their stories, I mean, they’re really stories of people’s lives.
Mindy Peterson: [00:10:24] Yeah, exactly. You’ve achieved professional acclaim and renown in your musical career, and you’ve taken on the secondary, high visibility and high impact career in advocating for music and the arts, uh, especially this intersection of music and health. Can you tell us a little bit about what that impetus and motivation was for you to become a music activist and use your platform and success to advocate for the benefits of music and this cross-sector collaboration?
Renee Fleming: [00:10:54] Absolutely. I suffered most of my career from not only bouts of intense stage fright, but also somatic pain. I had episodes of pain that, um, convinced me that there was no possible way I could sing or walk on stage, and it was wrapped up with performance pressure. So there was a lot to unpack, and I still battle with it sometimes. Uh, but I understand it better now. And the stage fright now I have total control of. And I love singing. Absolutely love performing. It’s an incredible joy to me. So, um, I dealt with all of that at a time when the mind body connection, for one thing, at least with doctors that I spoke with, wasn’t really acknowledged. People talked about, you know, the brain barrier and, you know, there there is no body connection, etc.. So I um, so I really struggled with that on my own. But I kept reading because there were suddenly there started to be all these articles about scientists looking at music and I so I when I met Francis Collins at a dinner party, uh, seven years ago, I said, why are people why are scientists studying this? And so that’s how we started. We basically I had just I just begun my kind to become an adviser at the Kennedy Center. And I said, do you think we could provide a platform for the science? I think the public would be really interested in this. So we’ve been doing that ever since.
Mindy Peterson: [00:12:22] Um, well, on behalf of musicians everywhere, we thank you for all you’re doing to lend a voice to this movement using your platform that you have. We really appreciate that. And it’s really exciting to see it grow and develop. Um, with your nurturing and many other people who are involved, like Francis Collins and others. In fact, speaking of him, I just want to mention one, uh, quote of his that I really enjoyed in the book. It may have been in the foreword, I’m not sure. But he said, “The most dramatic advances in science and medicine often arise when two previously unconnected disciplines intersect, learn each other’s language, and achieve insights that neither could have managed alone.” I really like that. And one other quote from Ann Patchett leave it to Ann to come up with a great quote. Uh, she said, “Music, if we are in the habit of listening, can be the bright silver thread that stitches our lives together and makes them whole.” Yes, I loved that.
Renee Fleming: [00:13:21] Leave it to Ann. Exactly. And it’s true. I mean, that’s why music memory is the last to go, because it’s those songs that connect to parts, aspects of our lives that do exactly that they bring. They’re connected to memory. It’s a very strong connection, right?
Mindy Peterson: [00:13:39] And music touches our lives in general. But one reason I loved Jacquelyn Kulinski’s chapter. She I think it’s called Can Singing Touch the Heart? She’s a cardiologist, not a trained musician. And it was just fascinating to hear her talk about how exercise is medicine. But sometimes exercise is hindered by physiological limitations. Enter singing as a form of exercise, and she points out the cardiologic benefits of singing and how it’s a low cost, accessible, safe, nonpharmacologic intervention that can improve health. And just her perspective from being a cardiologist and how singing can affect heart health, which was really fascinating.
Renee Fleming: [00:14:25] When when I met her, I said, were you did you sing? Did you do you have a performance background? She said nothing. Non zero. Wow. So she met somebody, a therapist who I think they, they decided to just try it. But it makes perfect sense when people are sick and they’re sedentary. Singing is exercise. Sure. And it it stimulates you know so many aspects of our health. Right. Breathing for one. Sure. But what to Francis’s point also, um, I’ve been funding I just started funding through the Neuroarts Blueprint Investigator Awards, that pair a young scientist with an artist, because to kind of create a stronger pipeline for the research.
Mindy Peterson: [00:15:10] I would love to check that out some more.
Renee Fleming: [00:15:13] In fact, I think in a couple of days the winners for this year will be announced.
Mindy Peterson: [00:15:17] Okay, I’ll look, I’ll look for that.
Renee Fleming: [00:15:19] And the other thing I want to put out there is Francis Collins said. What we need in terms of research is for art therapists to also study neuroscience. Mhm. So to strengthen that side of the training for people who are working in the therapeutic disciplines. Sure. So it’s interesting. Yeah. This is part of my messaging I think to just repeat the things that are brilliant. People are saying.
Mindy Peterson: [00:15:45] Wonderful. Well is there any final information about the book that you want to communicate to listeners?
Renee Fleming: [00:15:52] Um, I think, um, I as I said, I kind of put all of these different ideas and chapters together to create a snapshot of this world right now as it pertains to arts and health. But it it is probably, I hope, something that will be around for a little while. First of all, I completely underestimated how much work it would be to do this. But. And how? What an endeavor. But it’s exciting to have it because there’s nothing else like it, really. And and I’m hoping that people can discover the passion that I have, uh, if they pick it up. It’s also a great gift.
Mindy Peterson: [00:16:32] Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Renee. It’s an honor to have you here on the show. I ask all my guests to close out our conversation with a musical ending, a coda by sharing a song or a story about a moment that music enhanced your life, possibly a time period when music most enhanced your life. Do you have anything you can share with us? In closing as a little coda.
Renee Fleming: [00:16:58] Well, I used to be. I used to develop obsessions with music, um, especially when I was in college, and there were pieces that I would discover that I would stay up all night listening to over and over again. And I don’t know, I don’t know if this points to the fact that I was exposed to music at a very young age, um, and was pursuing it. But I can literally remember the wallpaper, you know, when, when that happened. I mean, when I was very young, I was I would listen to Peter and the Wolf over and over, but I remember where I was when I first heard the trio from Der Rosenkavalier, and somebody played it for me, and I think it was at a party and it just transported me. I mean, music has that that ability to create awe and science. Neuroscience is also a field that is everywhere now, but they’ve proven that awe is a phenomenal way not to make us feel small, but to make us feel connected to other people, which is counterintuitive. I think. You know, looking at the Grand Canyon has that same effect. But for many people it is really the that music can do that.
Transcribed by Sonix.ai