Disclaimer: This is transcribed using AI. Expect (funny) errors.
Mindy Peterson: [00:00:00] I’m Mindy Peterson, and this is Enhance Life with Music, where we explore the ways music makes our lives better and spotlight the resources you can use to enhance your life with music. My guest today is using AI in innovative, exciting, and surprising ways to bridge the past and present and amplify human talent and artistry. AyseDeniz is a classically trained, award winning pianist and composer. She holds a bachelor’s degree from Eastman School of Music and a master’s from the Royal Academy of Music. She is an official Kawai Artist and has performed in over 29 countries, from classical concert halls to rock and jazz festivals. In fact, she just returned from her fourth Burning Man festival, so it was fun kind of hearing a little bit about that before we kicked things off here. In 2022, she was named one of the 20 under 40 Young Shapers of the Future of Music by Encyclopaedia Britannica. Her compositions are featured on Amazon Prime, BBC Networks and National Geographic. Welcome to Enhance Life with Music, Ayse.
AyseDeniz: [00:01:09] Thank you so much for having me.
Mindy Peterson: [00:01:11] Great to have you here. Well, Ayse, one of your goals is to bring classical music to a much wider audience. And I love that because I’m a classically trained pianist. I love other genres of music as well, but definitely have a soft spot in my heart for classical music. And to that end of your goal, you have embraced AI as a tool for amplifying human talent and preserving history. Not all artists are happy about the development of AI. So tell us a little bit about how you became excited about AI and its ability to amplify human talent, and also bring classical music to a wider audience?
AyseDeniz: [00:01:51] Yeah, it was kind of accidental in a way, I have to say, because I am really not in tech and I’ve never been in tech, but I was always fascinated by technology, but never saw how as a musician, I could have a place in it because it’s a totally different, um, network of people. And, and often I wish that there was a merger, but I just didn’t know how that would be possible. And, um, I live in LA, and I had signed up for some of the networking events that were for AI groups, and I found myself in one this, like, beautiful place, uh, in a, like a really tall building, great sunset. And everybody’s there drinking and networking. And then finally there was the time to introduce ourselves there. And so, you know, uh, everybody inside of me, they were like, oh, we had like 15 startups. And like this engineer says, oh, I do like, I don’t know, VFX and, uh, you know, some, some super cool thing. And the other person is like, yeah, I sold like five companies, and the other one is like, I am an angel investor. Like, just like everybody who was just not a musician. I was the only one. And when it came to me, I basically said, like, I have no idea what I’m doing here.
AyseDeniz: [00:03:09] I’m a classical pianist and a composer. And everybody started laughing. And surprisingly, the CEO was there of this AI festival slash conference called Codex. And normally this happens in the UK. In London, it’s a really big deal. And they were going to do it for the first time in LA. And after within two weeks of that meeting basically. So he was like, oh, would you like to play something? And I said, do you have a piano? And he was like, no, not here. And but we started talking about composing tools in AI and how it could be used. And I said, like, I’m very interested in it. So yeah, why don’t I play at Codex? And I had to go home and create a completely new project from scratch with zero experience in tech. So basically I did like an eight hours of deep dive into what exists in AI slash piano slash anything classical, anything, right? And I couldn’t find anything really like within the first search because I was looking more for like, um, a piano that responds to me, for example, like, if I, I was imagining, like, how could it be, like, how would I use, um, AI if I could do anything right? So I imagined, oh, I would love to jam with an AI, or I would love to like, do like a piano duel or, you know, those things started coming and it hasn’t been done yet.
AyseDeniz: [00:04:28] So a lot of the technical tools would need to be built, and there wasn’t enough time for for that in two weeks. So that kind of I set that aside for the future goals. That’s still going to happen, just like just working on it. But um, then my friend was like, oh, you should explore some like generative AI tools like, um, Suno and Yu-Gi-Oh! And I started experimenting with them and with Yu-Gi-Oh! Like, I generated lots of random music, random piano music, and I didn’t really have a goal in my mind. I was just like trying out these tools, right? And at one point there was this like excerpt that I generated accidentally, and it was totally like Chopin. And I was like, oh my God, this is Frederic Chopin, basically, like came out from the ashes and like composes like what is going on. And so it was very clear that the training was based on Chopin’s works. So the output somehow came out to be very, very Chopin esque. But it’s it’s to a point where, like, I actually don’t know anybody who, who is able to do that. Like it’s really fascinated me. It was like, um, really like his soul came, you know, it’s I love classical music so much.
AyseDeniz: [00:05:38] And I have always imagined bringing composers back, and I always imagined how would it be to meet them? And like, how would it be like, you know, these, like, nerdy, nerdy dreams, um, and and even, like, before that, before any of these things. I had, like, a bust of Beethoven that I was carrying around me. This was a gift from a friend, and I had named him Beethoven. So Beethoven, like a lover, like a like a lover boy, basically. And I was like, carrying his bust around me to everywhere I would go. And then I had an Instagram account for him. And so I would like, speak as if it’s Beethoven writing, but like new, newly born into this modern world. And he would make comments about things like as if he’s like, you know, he’s lived through centuries, you know, and so he would be like in a pool swimming and he would be like in the airport and like traveling to different countries and like being this cool Beethoven anyway, just like it’s always been. Somehow in my mind, I was like, I wish that they were here. So when this happened, I was like, oh my God, I need to bring back Chopin. So let’s, let’s like build on this idea of this melody and how can I, like, make this a coherent piece of music that I can actually play live? And so the next parts were, I extended the the phrase and I kind of generated many different alterations.
AyseDeniz: [00:06:59] And at one point I found, in my opinion, the best fitting one, and I didn’t want to touch it too much because I wanted it to be completely composed by I. I didn’t want to like co-compose that one, and it worked, I think. So it’s the first ever AI prelude that is in the style of Chopin. And what happened was it was all these audio files. So there was a process of writing each note down and then memorizing it. Well, basically learning how to play it and then memorizing it. So now I can perform an I composed Chopin style of music in concert. So I have a new piece in, in my repertoire. I mean, it’s like it’s I just love that idea. I honestly like I think they would love it too, in a way, because like, if I’m dead, like, I would want people to play my music and like, make versions or like tributes. I mean, right, like, we have so many covers and so many of these things happening. Tribute bands, for example. So I mean, it’s kind of.
Mindy Peterson: [00:07:53] Like really well-known authors, like if they write certain books, you know, years after they’ve passed, there’s been other authors who have come along. And because there’s such a cult following, they’ve taken it upon themselves to write a sequel or a prequel or, you know, and kind of continue that series in a way. So, yeah, I. Exactly.
AyseDeniz: [00:08:12] Right. I mean, think of Shakespeare, for example. You can like there’s so many ways of like, oh, let’s write like Shakespeare, let’s do it like in the style of Shakespeare. Like that’s the thing. It’s like, and it’s a show of appreciation and it’s fandom and it’s exciting and creative. It’s an honor. Yeah.
Mindy Peterson: [00:08:27] Like I’ve been to a Julius Caesar play. It was actually at the Guthrie here in Minneapolis years ago, but it was like Julius Caesar in modern style. So they had people walking around in business suits carrying briefcases. And, you know, it was like today’s modern, you know? So. Yeah. Yeah. I’m tracking with you.
AyseDeniz: [00:08:44] Yeah, exactly. So I love that stuff. And I was just very excited. And so for the first performance I did this Chopin I prelude. And then I also played like that wasn’t enough for me. So I was like, okay, I need to find other ways. So I generated some string orchestra with AI and it sounded so much like Vivaldi. And I was like, okay, I’ll call this the fifth season of Vivaldi, and I’m playing piano over it. Um, I know that the style of the piano doesn’t really imitate actual Vivaldi, just I mean, that’s on purpose just because I tried the harpsichord, but I didn’t want it to be as as, um, you know, imitative as him. Totally. Maybe I’ll change my mind, but it’s something more of a modern. So, like, you see robots in the back. So I also created the images. That took a long time. This was like in the very early stages of generative AI for art and images. And so I had to generate images of these robot orchestra members, like violinists and cellists and just like orchestra string players, basically. And then I had to animate them. And this took so long. And then and then I had to retime them and pick the ones that worked in the music. So place them in the right spots so they look like.
Mindy Peterson: [00:09:52] All of this within two weeks. Oh my goodness. Yeah.
AyseDeniz: [00:09:56] Pretty much.
Mindy Peterson: [00:09:56] Now I saw a YouTube video, maybe on your website of you presenting at cog X. Have you done multiple presentations or did the one that I see was that the one that was just two weeks into your. Yeah. So that was two.
AyseDeniz: [00:10:11] Weeks and it’s just an excerpt of it. So at that point I actually had. So there were no screens. So I actually did Chopin preludes, which is what you saw where I’m testing the audience, probably like asking them.
Mindy Peterson: [00:10:24] And I want our audience right now to hear about this, because I thought it was fascinating. And as a former piano teacher, I thought, this is gold in terms of educational value, because, okay, so what I did is. Oh go ahead.
AyseDeniz: [00:10:38] Yeah, I was going to say, like, it is definitely my goal is to introduce these composers to the audience. And then I think making it fun, like a quiz. Yes. Really helps I think. And so I played 30s of excerpts from an actual Chopin piece, a piece I wrote in the style of Chopin, and then the AI generated piece. And then I asked them, which one do you think is the AI generated one? And nobody, like it was just so random. They all like, missed it. It’s like.
Mindy Peterson: [00:11:06] You know, the only one I got, right? Honestly, I’m going to out myself here. The only one I got right was your composition. And really when you were. Yeah. When you were playing it, I thought there’s just like she’s coming alive in a different way with this one. I think this is her composition. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe it was just dumb luck. Good guess. No, no, you’re right, you’re right.
AyseDeniz: [00:11:27] I mean, obviously you respond a little different to your own music. I think, um, it’s like your own baby, you know? So it totally makes sense. Um, I wanted to choose something that people wouldn’t have heard of Chopin so much. It’s the fourth ballad excerpt from the fourth ballad. And you know, these, like, grand, grand works by Chopin aren’t really that often played because they’re hard. So I didn’t want to play like a fantasy impromptu or anything like, you know, just because everybody would know. So it was really interesting to to see that. And I think, um, what is important is like, what makes Chopin. Chopin and like, what is his style? And these are mostly taught in schools. If you select music as an elective, and that’s only if you’re privileged enough to go to a school where it actually has a decent music program. So I think a lot of people might have missed out on that. They won’t be able to know why. Why is Chopin important, for example, or why is Beethoven important? Why is Mozart? And often I think we fail to reach them within the traditional ways because we assume people just read right. And it’s the same with program notes. Like, I would go to a lot of classical concerts as a kid, and it’s just it was like homework, you know, like I would read them, but I was so bored.
AyseDeniz: [00:12:38] Like I was like, I wish there was like someone on stage explaining this to me in real time instead of expecting me to read pages of analysis, which most of them didn’t even make that much sense, to be honest. Because like, someone is like, it’s like you’re already hearing what’s going on in the music. It’s like so hard to put, like if you if you don’t really hear what notes that you know, all the layers are happening and like what’s happening in the exact melodies, it’s really hard to just read from a text and understand what the music is. Right? So it really helps to see and hear it in real time. Then you’re like, oh, I see what happened to that melody? Or you know, how the composer changed it or modified it and like, inverted it or whatever. So, um, anyway, I’ve always had this like mission of educating people, and I really deeply care about classical music. And it’s, I think a huge, huge, huge, maybe one of the most important aspects of our history. Right. It’s and I think preserving it is really important, especially with a lot of this new styles of music coming out. And also I really wanted to make it, um, where it’s ethically also right, you know, because I’m not claiming that I compose those pieces. I’m literally saying this is like it’s a tribute to Chopin and and, um, yeah, yeah, it’s being transparent and creative and also I’m playing it myself.
AyseDeniz: [00:13:58] It’s not like I’m using someone else’s recording and, and, um, you know, on stage. So I think the human element is really important and. Yeah. And at Codex, the third part was so, so I did a performance which I didn’t put this on on YouTube, but with the Vivaldi style one where I was playing with the AI orchestra. And then the third one was this like more of a collaboration of Co-composition? It’s more of an epic soundtrack. It’s actually on YouTube. You can see it. It’s called 3050 Equinox, and that’s like three year 3050. And there is this like a dystopian thing. I created a storyline to it and a video. So I created all the images. I mean, I didn’t create, I generated them and then animated them. All that stuff and the whole storyline is mine. And I was imagining a future of, like this. Um, it’s a little dystopian, but it’s cool. I think the leader is a woman, basically. And she gives birth to this cyborg baby, and every everybody else is essentially like just robots. It’s in the desert, and they bring her roses as a gift. And all these other cyborgs start singing opera songs, like Around the World. So it’s like a it’s this like a ceremonial birth celebration to this new cyborg baby, basically.
Mindy Peterson: [00:15:08] And you did all of this in two weeks.
AyseDeniz: [00:15:10] Um, so this was so this I built the videos after. So the sound came first, and then I was like, this needs a storyline, and I want to share it with people. So I started using more of the the visuals after that. And yeah, it came very, very early. Okay.
Mindy Peterson: [00:15:25] So the presentation, how was that received? Because I’m assuming that all the people at this presentation were similar, similar demographic and slice of the population than what you were in that initial networking group with. Probably not a bunch of like, classical musicians in that group. So what was their response to your presentation?
AyseDeniz: [00:15:45] Honestly, they loved it so much because it was real, like human performance. I was the only one who really performed anything. Okay. I mean, there was another session where they just played back some AI generated music and it was just like, not interesting at all. Like, you know, it’s I think I think there is a whole, um, level of experience you get when you watch. It’s like watching an athlete versus a robot doing jumps, right? Like you, who cares about the robot doing jumps like, I mean, unless it’s used for like a meaningful purpose, there is no point. I think, um, and and I think.
Mindy Peterson: [00:16:18] Like marketing, marketing images, it’s been shown that people tend to respond more to images when there’s a human in it. So I do think we’re just we’re wired to respond to that human element.
AyseDeniz: [00:16:30] Yeah. And I actually have a I have a theory. It’s like in the future, I don’t know if you’ve seen the movie her. Have you seen it? No. Oh, you have to see it. It’s kind of dark, but, um. But can I spoil it for you? I don’t know if I can or. Well.
Mindy Peterson: [00:16:45] I’m okay with it, but you may not want to. I would be okay. How about this? I’m not spoil it for listeners, okay?
AyseDeniz: [00:16:51] I’m not going to spoil it, but I’m going to just say to you, my theory is like, I think if I gets like, so advanced, I think they might just enjoy their own shows. So like, probably they could just create music in their own little world and enjoy it themselves. But humans are always going to want to watch humans. That’s my theory. It’s like even if there is like some sort of AI, people are still going to be more interested in their own kind. So that’s that’s my theory. But sure.
Mindy Peterson: [00:17:18] Well, obviously your experience at Cardiacs struck a chord, pun intended. Yeah, actually, I was going to say also with your audience with somebody, because, I mean, this is now a big part of your show. You have an AI piano show that sort of came out of that. Is that right?
AyseDeniz: [00:17:33] Yes. But basically, yeah. So I also wanted to mention I did like a little hand raise test to see, like, who has ever taken piano lessons? And it was almost 100% of the audience. Almost everybody at one point had taken lessons. And then and I asked them, like, who quit? And it was, again, the same, same hands up. So the quit rate is it’s like almost 99% quit rate, which is crazy. And then these people come to me and they’re like, I wish we I was still playing or like, oh, I saw you and I want to start again. And I mean, it’s like all these things. The comments were very interesting. And so the tech community is actually not that different from us, I think, because like, I count myself as a very big nerd if we’re just nerds in different aspects, right? Yeah. And we appreciate all these technical challenges and these innovations. And I think there’s definitely like a creativity as well that we’re both both groups are interested in, especially now in tech world. So I was thinking, how can I expand this and create more music from in the style of different classical composers. So I did a Mozart one recently in San Francisco. This was really fun. I wrote, kind of like co-wrote. Oh, I wouldn’t say co-wrote, actually. Let’s say I wrote it, but I generated it and I structured it, and it’s very much in the style of Mozart, and it’s like a piano and orchestra piece.
AyseDeniz: [00:18:52] It’s kind of like in a rondo form. So the orchestra plays piano Respawn’s orchestra plays piano response. And then we all play together and finish. And I was like, you know, like this piano solo parts. I don’t know how I’m going to time it because there’s no music that happens during that time. So I can’t follow it and play on like, you know, live. And I was like, why don’t I create a Mozart conductor? And he can come and conduct me when I’m playing on stage. And so basically that came through. I partnered with an animation studio called Wu Studios. It’s actually pronounced well pronounced differently than it’s written. It’s all all studios. They were able to animate the images I generated of a cool, really charismatic Mozart. And then they asked me, okay, do a green screen of your own conducting. Send us that, and then we’re gonna match the Mozart to do your conducting. So it’s basically like, you’ll see, like these robots I generated, they’re like playing music while the orchestra is doing it. And then Mozart comes on the on the screen, and then he conducts me, and I literally look at him to see where the beats are. And then the orchestra comes back in and it’s just so great, like, and it’s based on, like a real scan of his bust. But then we I mean, I wanted to really make him much more cuter than, than the original, so, you know, nothing bad.
Mindy Peterson: [00:20:15] But the orchestra that you’re playing with and these shows, is the orchestra human or is that. No. Yeah, it’s totally I. Yeah. Okay. So you’re the only human performing, and you have an AI generated conductor and orchestra?
AyseDeniz: [00:20:30] Pretty much. Yeah.
Mindy Peterson: [00:20:30] Okay, so the AI piano show. You mentioned mentioned you have a Mozart one. Yeah. There’s one called Classical regenerated. Is that separate than the Mozart?
AyseDeniz: [00:20:40] So that’s that’s basically the umbrella name for it for all of these little tracks. So there is Mozart. There is Bach. And I haven’t actually premiered it yet. There is a Beethoven one. There is Schumann. I said there is Rachmaninov as well. And so those ones I’m currently working on, I’ve already generated the music and I’m kind of learning how to play them now. It’s actually it’s not easy. It’s it’s very hard. It’s like.
Mindy Peterson: [00:21:05] I believe it.
AyseDeniz: [00:21:06] You know, especially the romantic one. I’m like, oh my God, why am I doing this to myself? But it’s like, you know, I mean, one part of me is like being a pianist, like I always am fascinated with, like, uh, works of just like new pieces. Right. Um, and but then new pieces in the style of my favorite composer is, it’s great. And it’s literally trained on their music. So it’s not like someone trying to imitate them, which I think is more pure. I really think it’s more pure. And also I’m just like, wow, like, just like the more I get into this, like feedback loop with I when I’m creating and honestly, like it’s so strange that like, I will get one amazing piece of music, maybe after a couple hours and then I can never do that again the same way. It’s really interesting. Like I tried to create another Chopin prelude and it just was like not happening. I tried it so many times. So it’s really interesting. Yeah, yeah.
Mindy Peterson: [00:22:01] So your classical regenerated piano shows, these AI piano shows. It’s a way that you’re honoring the composers and also introducing new audiences to classical music in an innovative way. You combine your own compositions with original works from the masters and those generated by AI.
AyseDeniz: [00:22:23] Yes. Can I can I tell you also, I did a beta version of this and I’m going to do a really big launch of it soon. You will hear about it, probably in a very, very big conference soon. But I did a beta version of this kind of in a test audience and in Venice in LA, where I actually trained AI agents. So I trained a Chopin AI, and then he actually came and spoke. So he, like I trained him on, like all academic papers and books written about him. And then he he was like speaking with a French accent, and he was presenting with me. And I was like, hey, Chopin, how would you compose this poem? And then he would be like, oh, uh, you know, like mon Cher. And like, he just was like those days and like, like we were with George Sand and like, you know, he just like he he really was talking about his style in the correct way, like, you know, it’s it’s totally true based on facts. And it was just crazy, like people had like, um, really interesting reactions to it. They went home and they were like, we had an existential crisis, like it was, but it was so great. You know, I also taught Chopin, where he was. So he would be like talking, you know, he he knows that he’s back and this year and in this like city and and he thanked the organizers. It was like it was insane. And then and then I also did a bit of version of George Sanders’s lover, you know, the feminist author. Yes. Yes. And, um, and I trained her and she came back and then she was talking about how much she misses Chopin and how, like, what she likes about his music and those memories they had in Mallorca and like, wow.
Mindy Peterson: [00:23:58] Well, again, I just feel like that’s educational gold because I’m just thinking you could have your students listening to this and not only doing what you did. Like, guess what’s original? Guess what’s, I guess what’s composed in the style of Chopin. But also if they listen to that agent that you had trained speaking. Yeah, they could you could have the students say, okay, what about this is accurate and and what of it? You know, what of this is not really. What do you think is not authentic? What would of was said would not really have been said by show. Exactly. Yes, absolutely. Critique it. Yeah.
AyseDeniz: [00:24:37] Yes. And I think that’s a super important skill now that every kid should be learning, because more and more we have so much data. That’s not true. And I think like for example, my generation, I think we’re pretty good at seeing fake fake videos versus real ones. But my parents, I mean, they’re so intelligent. But like one time I remember like years ago, there was a video of, uh, supposedly Macron with his now wife, but he was a kid. And I mean, you know, they have an age difference. And there was a kid dancing at a competition on TV with like, an elderly, like a lady. And everybody was like, This is Macron’s childhood. This is Macron’s childhood. I was like, oh, I saw it. I was like, that’s so fake. That’s not even true. But but my parents sent it to me. I’m like. And then I gave like a lecture to my parents. I’m like, guys like, just always fact check what you see online because like, for me this was like so easy to spot. But for them, they kind of believed what they were seeing. Sure. So I think these kids now they have to read. And us. I mean, obviously we need to really fact check what we see now and also with music. It is critical analysis is so much important now, more important than ever. So why is this Chopin’s work and not like another romantic composer in his life or I know, like it’s such a niche, but I think it’s still very important. Well, you.
Mindy Peterson: [00:25:55] You mentioned the AI platform that you use. Is it Yu-Gi-Oh!
AyseDeniz: [00:25:59] Yes. So Yu-Gi-Oh! Yeah. Or. I don’t know how to say it. Yu-gi-oh! Without the A audio. Without the A? Yeah. Yu-gi-oh! Um, yeah. So I use that for generating. But, um, but my rating.
Mindy Peterson: [00:26:11] Is that used for generating score like a musical.
AyseDeniz: [00:26:14] Score. Okay, not the score, just the sound. Just the sound waves. And then I have to then work on the score myself, like, so I have to listen. And then I actually found a really great team members. Now they’re helping me do all the the most of the process now so that I can actually start working on them and learn how to play. Um, but, um, so the process.
Mindy Peterson: [00:26:35] There were programs that can listen to music and automatically score it. Uh.
AyseDeniz: [00:26:40] No. I mean, it only works for very simple music that’s in real like very specific tempo. So if you, if you, you know, that detects like the pitch. But if you try to do that to anything sophisticated and with any rubato, it’ll give you all these notes of frequencies and it’ll be like ants crawling on your score like they’re it’s it’s almost like, I mean, simplified version would be like if someone records our conversation and then writes every letter right next to each other, okay. And then and then you have to, like, then go in and be like, okay, that’s a word. Put a space, put the exclamation, whatever. Like these things. It would take longer to do that than just to write down the score, the notes that you’re hearing. So transcription is a really important part of this. I do hope someone develops something like that so I don’t need to, you know, spend time on all this admin work. Um, because it’s not part of the.
Mindy Peterson: [00:27:33] Idea of AI is that it’s not replacing people, it’s just allowing us to replace some of those more mundane aspects of our jobs that we don’t want to be doing, so that we can be doing the more human elements and the things that bring that human talent to our work. So besides audio and ChatGPT, I think most of us are pretty familiar with ChatGPT. What are some of the other tools, the AI tools that you use?
AyseDeniz: [00:27:59] So I have two, actually three favorites. One is for image generation I use obviously Midjourney. Midjourney is amazing. Um, that’s how AI generated images of all my videos. And then and then I use runway to animate them and then or Luma Labs sometimes, but mostly runway. And then you kind of upscale them using Topaz AI. So that’s another tool where you can upscale images of videos. Um, so that’s really cool. In runway. You can also create a LUT, which is like a filter of a, um, like a color color scheme. So if you want it to look like an old school, old, old movie, or like black and white movie, like it’ll do the color grading for you. Um, but but it’s based on a prompt. So again, like, none of these things really work immediately you have to really experiment and spend time and and learn how to prompt it. And I’m really impatient because I don’t want to spend too much time off music. You know, like the video part is something that’s important but not as important as the music quality and the performance. So hopefully in the future I will work more with visual teams so that we can create some much more sophisticated pieces of art and integrate it with my original compositions too, so that I haven’t mentioned. But like, that’s like a whole other project. And I really do care about my own music too. There is some Experimentation I’m doing with AI to in in that regard, one is to play over an AI piano. So I have a piece where it’s actually one of my favorite pieces. Like I don’t know why it’s like that, but it’s almost. That feedback loop was so great that I ended up creating a music that was exactly what I would have written.
AyseDeniz: [00:29:42] It’s like, it’s so interesting to say that, like, that’s exactly what I would write if I could wow it. Like an AI kind of allowed me to do that in a weird way. And yeah, it’s very strange, but, um, so it’s called whispers and it’s like a felt piano AI and then I play over it and then strings come in. So that’s one of the compositions. And there is one also with electronic beats that were created with AI. And so I always wanted to experiment with electronic music, but I’m not a producer. And, you know, it’s a huge deal to work with. Like you have to pay so much money. And that’s the thing is, like with music, it’s like the most expensive art form, I think where you like, you don’t get return, like return on your investment is like almost. It’s like almost always minus like the, the you, you spend much more money creating something than, than receiving. So imagine like I’ve spent 30 more than 30 years now in 36, like taking piano lessons and like perfecting certain things. And it’s just like the current, um, economy revolving around music industry is just, like, not functioning like all these streaming platforms basically like giving peanuts to to artists. It’s ridiculous. I think, um, and and, you know, it has to change at some point. So if I, if I want to, let’s say, record with an actual orchestra, I would need to pay like $50,000 for that production. I mean, where am I going to find that money? It’s like if I’m getting like 0.002 $0.02 from a stream, like it’s not going to happen, you know? So, um, so I think people also forget that when they’re kind of judging. I sure, yeah.
Mindy Peterson: [00:31:26] Yeah, yeah, really good point. I do work with a lot of music educators in my during my day job, and that includes university music faculty K through 12 music educators, private instructors. What would you like the educators, these educators of our next generation musicians to know about the educational potential of AI related to classical music?
AyseDeniz: [00:31:51] I would tell them to focus on curation and strategic strategic goals. Um, and, and maybe like managing and prompting. So like prompting is super important and also trying out new tools. This is something so new and they have to be really fast in trying to, you know, utilize different updates. I mean, like six months ago, it was a totally different world for AI than now. So the speed of innovation is crazy. It’s like going exponential. Um, so I think the students have to be prepared. Once they graduate, they will they should know how to use those tools, like at least the most recent ones. Ideally, I would love to have to see like some sort of a integration between the tech world and the music world instead of this fight, because I see a lot of fight, and that’s never really going to help the artists in the long run. It’s almost like, so I think ideal situation is if people can get paid to license their materials, that would be the ideal goal, I think, like so that they would generate some passive income for the humans. But I think like banning or or censoring AI is not going to help because there’s going to be another part of the world where they’re going to say yes, like let’s say in the United States, our artists are like, you know, protesting. And they don’t want, like, their images to be used. And they’ll but you know what? The US is not the only country. And there’s always going to be another country where people are going to say yes to any money, like a dollar matters to these people, right? Like there are so many different incremental of economic situations.
AyseDeniz: [00:33:25] So in the long run, it’s going to be those people who then take the jobs of the potential of what the US, you know, Americans would be earning. So I think this is important to note. This is why, like, all these big scores are being recorded in Budapest, for example, like all these film scores and orchestras, it’s because it’s so expensive to hire musicians here in the US because of the rates. They’re asking for such high rates from the union, I guess. And there is like all these rules around it, that it just makes it really hard to employ them. So everybody who wants to record a live orchestra just goes to Prague or Budapest to record. So what happens? The economy shifts, right? Maybe that’s a good thing. I mean, that’s actually providing different opportunities to other people. But just I’m just talking right now as if we’re thinking about the US economy, but obviously I’m Turkish and and I can see like the big picture, I think a little better than most people here, just because I’ve traveled a lot and lived in different countries. I was in, you know, London for like nine years. It is very important that we do not block opportunities for people. Sure.
Mindy Peterson: [00:34:34] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you read some really good points, and it’s really important to both be pragmatic and realistic about the state of the economy, both locally and globally, and also have that commitment to excellence. And, you know, there’s there’s always that balance there. I like what you’re saying, though, about combining and combining technology and music departments more. In fact, I was just at a professional development day last week with a school district here locally in the Minneapolis area, Minneapolis-Saint Paul area, and the music director of the music programming there was was really talking about his desire to break down the silos that tend to be created. And and I love that because I do think it does make more well-rounded people to be more globally aware and not just get in your glass castle, your ivory tower of classical music, and that’s all you’re aware of. But to be aware of some of these other industries and fields and what’s happening globally and, and work together and collaborate. I mean, I think that just helps all of us. And really, with funding to schools, you can really tap into different funding pools. If you’re pulling in technology and music department, you know, if these departments are working together, they can sort of share resources, whether it’s digital.
AyseDeniz: [00:36:02] Yeah. And also like a lot of the tech people aren’t aware of what musicians actually need, you know, and it would open up conversations like that. For example I would love some some AI to like, humanize the performance of strings that I write. And because I don’t want to waste time trying to make a violin part sound like a real human performance, and that’s like a really like, you just spent so many hours doing that. And I think it’s a waste of time, honestly. Like, just like if there was a tool where it could just because you’re already you’ve already written the part, but it’s more about how it’s played, right? Sure. And you’re trying to do that on a, on a keyboard. And also like this is important because people forget this too. This is exactly how technology also disrupted the classical music too. By creating all these sample sample libraries, you can buy the sound of BBC Symphony already. You can buy Vienna Philharmonic and these are for sale. And you, you can purchase them and then use those sounds by just playing a keyboard, a Midi keyboard. And that’s how most of these soundtracks are made that aren’t really big budgets like so and so. People forget that. And that was already a transition that I initially thought that was not really fair on the musicians already. Because you know, why not just use real musicians? But I think that whole like, it’s like a whole chicken egg situation. So, you know, all the economy of all of that and the resources are being is very expensive. So in a way that did democratize music, I think it gave a lot of opportunities to composers who then didn’t need actual musicians. They could just use those sample libraries to create their soundtracks or whatever music they’re doing. So but you know that that was already a really big change. Most of the music you’re hearing already is probably just played by a computer. So interesting.
Mindy Peterson: [00:37:47] Wow.
AyseDeniz: [00:37:48] Like people don’t realize that. Yeah.
Mindy Peterson: [00:37:50] Sure. I alluded to my day job. I work for the local Kauai dealer here in Minneapolis, Schmidt Music. We’re also the Steinway dealer, so your status as a Kauai artist definitely caught my attention. Tell us a little bit about what attracted you to Kauai Pianos.
AyseDeniz: [00:38:08] Yeah, I was actually it was Kawhi was my first ever piano at home. Um, I grew up with it. And.
Mindy Peterson: [00:38:14] And was that in Turkey?
AyseDeniz: [00:38:16] Yeah. Okay. So funny enough, my first piano teachers were distributors of Kauai, and that’s why we had an upright Kauai. And I was like, that was my first toy like. And I would spend all my important times with that piano. And years later, it was really kind of serendipitous. I guess that’s the right word. I was trying to come to LA, but I hadn’t decided. And I was in London and Brexit happened. And you know, having visa issues is always a thing. So and I had a green card and I was like, I want to just like not lose that opportunity. And since I studied at Eastman too, I had like a community of great musician friends. And, um, one of them had started working for Kauai and he was like, hey, like, we we have an artist program, let’s do some partnership and like, let’s support. We would love to support you if you move to L.A. and because their headquarters are in L.A., and that was kind of like the introduction he made. And it’s been like the defining reason of why I actually could move to L.A. just because it’s a huge luxury to have a piano delivered to your place like that, like never happens. And so all the time you’re like, thinking, Will a piano fit in this apartment? Like, how can I get it transported? And, like, will it? I mean, you know, my life, like, how I lived, was based on whether a piano would fit there and whether, you know what I mean.
AyseDeniz: [00:39:41] It’s not about me, but about the piano, basically. And now I have a cat. So it’s about him and the pianos and then me, I countered. Um, but, um, so Kawhi was like, we’re going to support you in North America. We’ll send you pianos and we love your art and let’s, let’s do it. So I kind of moved because of Kawhi to LA. Um, and I did a lot of video shoots using Kawhi instruments. I have two right now in my studio and they also support me when I do festivals and like concerts. They they send pianos there, and it really allows me to actually perform much more than I would, because it resolves the issue of like a venue, not not having a piano. You know, it’s like I’m like already when I’m when I’m talking to the venue, I’m like, hey, by the way, Kawai can sponsor the piano, so don’t worry about the piano issue. So and I think that is really smart because that means they’re reaching places where those people may not have had the exposure to piano or Kawai. So I think it really helps them to. So I’ve done so many concerts now, from tech conferences to little underground concert halls to Airbnbs and just, just things like that. So it’s been very I’m very grateful and I think it’s a really good collaboration.
Mindy Peterson: [00:40:59] It sounds like it. I actually own a Kawai piano that I’ve had for, oh, almost. Well, just about 20 years now. Yeah. And I love it. It’s worked out just perfectly for me. I’m really happy with it. Yeah. Well, you’ve talked about your compositions. You do have sheet music available on your website. You have many albums that are available. Obviously you put on concerts, you do presentations. You also have the Borderless Piano Academy. Tell us a little bit about the Piano Academy and any other resources and offerings.
AyseDeniz: [00:41:32] Yeah, the Borderless Piano Academy is currently under transition. I’m working on a new website, so a lot of the user experience is going to be much better there. But that was basically a pandemic project that started off when all my concerts got canceled. I was in Bodrum, the Aegean side of turkey, chopping wood and literally like living with wild boars. And I was like, what should I do? Like to give back to the community that has supported me. And I had a lot of these like social media fans, especially Facebook. So I did a lot of free like concerts from home. But also I was like, okay, why don’t I create a method where I wish I was taught that way. So it’s like it’s accurate but also fun and and short videos. So, you know, the way I learned the piano was really like torturous. I gotta say. It’s like the Russian school and like, just like you’re like, there’s punishment. There is like it’s really disciplined. It’s definitely not fun. I would I’ll say I loved it, but I like I loved the music, but I actually hated learning it and it was like I was sick all the time of like stage fright. And I would have, like, pain in my stomach each time I would go to class. I mean, it was just not a great way to, to learn, I think. And so I wouldn’t want that on other people because that’s why people quit. Right? Like if you don’t make it fun and accessible, they’re not going to keep going. But then also, if you make it too fun and there’s no content, then they’ll never learn it. So you can’t learn piano from falling bricks, you know? And that’s I was like, I gotta change. This is like. And there were a lot of scam advertisements like, oh, like ten days of piano, like ten weeks of piano, a year of piano. And they’re like, these are already pianists. And then they’re like, pretending to have just begun. And there were all these, like, fake advertisements for various platforms, like, so I was like, okay, I want to create something that’s actually like, legit.
AyseDeniz: [00:43:20] So I did the whole production myself, literally learned, oh my God, it was so hard. I even did the animations. Like I learned how to do animations on video. And of course I made so many mistakes during like during this whole production process. Like the voice didn’t sync with the audio and like the lifts and oh my God, it was like a whole thing. But it took me around six months maybe to create that course. And then so there’s like the core piano course where it’s totally for the beginners, like if you’ve never touched a piano and it covers around two years of theory and harmony, and it’s really easy and simple, it is for adults, but it does look like it’s for kids in the beginning, just because there’s animations. Because I was teaching in London to like 35 students and half of them were adults. And I realized that it doesn’t like just because they’re adults. It doesn’t mean you have to be so serious. You know what I mean? It’s like it’s like a lot of the things that kids loved. Adults also loved. And I was like, okay, I’m gonna totally use these things. Like the storyline of how to name the notes and how to like how to create a storyline between the relations of the notes.
AyseDeniz: [00:44:22] So there is like the big house and the small house. I think it’s I think it’s cool. It’s like so all the black, like the three notes of the three black keys, is like a big house, and the small house is like the two black keys, so automatically you can picture them, right? Like if you’re just a beginner, it’s like the hardest thing is to to calculate where the notes are because there are so many. Like there’s 88 keys and like people are like each time they’re like counting notes note by note. And I was like, okay, what’s a faster way to learn where the notes are? And then I put humans inside those houses. It’s based on the note names. So like there’s a couple who lives in the big house, Anna and George, like G for George and Anna. So a and then there is like a, you know, the dog who lives in the small house, it’s a D for dog. And then there is like a cat. That’s the neighbor. She of course the cat is roaming around. So that’s next to the dog, you know what I mean? It’s like all these, like, little stories and animations. And so currently I’m trying to make it better with AI. That’s one of my big projects. Then how can I create more content, better quality and more fun? So that’s like a huge initiative I have.
AyseDeniz: [00:45:30] And ideally I would love to have the courses presented by the composers themselves. So it could be like Mozart greeting you and be like, welcome to the class today. Like, you know, like, let’s learn my Turkish march. And then he could be like, let’s do a remix of it, or like, let’s turn it into jazz and like, it’s I think that’d be really cool. But that is a whole other like, I don’t know if I’ll have time to achieve that in the right time, but that’s definitely one of the projects currently the Borders Academy has repertoire classes that are, I think 6 or 7 videos where I teach specific courses, pieces of music, and they’re literally like how I would teach in a real class. So it would be like, for example, 45 minutes long and I start from like how to read sheet music, like how to do finger numbers to how to interpret. And each it’s like segmented into different parts of learning. And by the end of the course they can learn how to play that piece and, and also apply the same format to any other piece. So that that was the the goal to like that, you can just then download any sheet music and play it on your own time and know how to work on it. That’s a that’s a very important skill I think.
Mindy Peterson: [00:46:39] Yeah, for sure. Well, I’ll definitely have lots of links in the show notes, including a link to your website where anyone can find out more about these resources and your piano academy. Your website is Addie pianist. Com Addie for your initials. I am just so excited by the educational potential. Obviously I’ve said that a few times, I think, during our conversation, but I’m just going to close with a quote of yours. I think this was maybe on your website that’s more related to your I piano show, I think, but I just love how succinct you were in this quote. You said, I always wondered what the great composers would have created if they were alive today. By integrating AI with classical music, we can explore these possibilities and create something truly unique. This project is a tribute to the masters who have shaped Western classical music and a step towards the future of music through technology. And that’s the end of the quote. Love that. As you know, Aisha, I ask all my guests to close out our conversation with a musical ending a coda by sharing a song or story about a moment that music enhanced your life. Tell us about the song that you’ve shared that listeners will hear a little clip of soon.
AyseDeniz: [00:47:50] Yes. So this is my composition called Kelton. I actually wrote it when I moved to LA during the pandemic and I had no hopes, nothing about the future. I didn’t know what was going to happen, and I was very depressed and I was staying on Kelton Street, and somehow I wrote this music as an escape from reality. It was like this magical world where it was kind of like Harry Potter ish, like, you know, I was imagining all these like, like layers of of, um, piano and orchestra and just like this, this safe zone for me. And it was basically to hold that hope within that music and um, and yeah, so it came about really kind of fast. And it later on I recorded with an actual orchestra in the UK produced by Audio Network, which is like a production library company, and they’re very, very good. So the privilege was obviously I was invited to play at Disney Hall and this, uh, LACMA orchestra, um, they played it with me and you’ll hear the piece. It’s very romantic. And, um, I would say very much like a film score.
Transcribed by Sonix.ai