Disclaimer: This is transcribed using AI. Expect (funny) errors.
Mindy Peterson: [00:00:00] I’m Mindy Peterson and this is Enhance Life with Music, where we explore the ways music can make our lives better and spotlight the resources you can use to enhance your life with music. We’re talking today about a form of music therapy that has been uniquely successful in healing and empowering traumatized voices, including those of child soldiers and those impacted by sexual violence. Darcy Ataman is a music and video producer by trade, and has dedicated his work to bringing an alternate form of music therapy to survivors of conflict and trauma. He is the founder of Make Music Matter and developer of the innovative program healing and Harmony, which has served over 14,000 individuals in nine countries around the world. Darcy writes and speaks internationally on the long lasting impact of music and its ability to, I love this, “restitch the soul.” Thank you so much for joining me today, Darcy. And welcome to Enhance Life with Music.
Darcy Ataman: [00:01:05] My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Mindy Peterson: [00:01:07] Well, Darcy, starting out, I’m curious to hear a little bit about your journey. What took you from being an undergrad at University of Manitoba to developing a music therapy program for survivors of violence? Can you tell us a little bit about your path?
Darcy Ataman: [00:01:22] Sure. There are various versions of the story which can go from 2 minutes to 2 hours.
Mindy Peterson: [00:01:28] So take the two minute version.
Darcy Ataman: [00:01:31] Expeditious version of it. Um, you know, basically I did do my undergrad in psychology and didn’t realize until fairly recently I put my two worlds together, honestly, that that had escaped me. But, um, even when I was in undergrad, my primary interest was music and art. But I went to school because, frankly, it was easier than getting a job at that point. So I just kind of kept going to school, and it gave me more time to do music. And that then led me into wanting to become a music producer. And I ended up in Philadelphia, actually. And because I had cold called in the eastern seaboard for a long time, you know, I spent a tremendous amount of time in New York just literally knocking on doors, saying, I’ll volunteer at a studio, I’ll take out the garbage, just let me watch. And eventually I got to a studio in Philadelphia that allowed me to do that. And it ended up being, um, really important to this, this part of the journey and the story because, um, the person working on the studio is a gentleman named Shelly Yakus, who was a famous engineer, recorded imagine from John Lennon and a bunch of U2 records, Alice Cooper, Fleetwood Mac, you name it. And I ended up living with him. Uh, and across the hall was DJ Jazzy Jeff. So it was a really incredible musical environment to be in. Wow. And I was in that environment 24 over seven, pretty much, uh, for a while. But what occurred, which is part of this journey, was not only I ended up being sort of the guru to the vocalists in that area about doing better performances in the studio. My nickname, actually, I’ve never told this to anybody.
Mindy Peterson: [00:03:19] Because.
Darcy Ataman: [00:03:20] Honestly, I haven’t. Um, was Yoda because I would just go talk to a singer to make him or her better, and then they perform fine.
Mindy Peterson: [00:03:29] Oh, wow.
Darcy Ataman: [00:03:30] And so my nickname ended up being being, you know, Yoda. Um, for a while. But what occurred during that time of practically living in these studios was, you know, it was just the advent of the internet where you had to dial up the one office computer that had had, you know, internet, and I’d take breaks and go online just to kind of clear my head. And I discovered these outside news sources like the BBC and Al Jazeera, and being from Canada and the prairies, I just never saw this before. I never saw I was reading about the Aids pandemic in sub-Saharan Africa in 2006, 2007, and I was just floored at it and just wondering why this wasn’t in the Daily News at home in Winnipeg. And I got really the more I dug into it, I got really obsessed about the injustice gap of what is and what should be. So I got really interested in that, and I started to do as a producer these one off projects. And for the first few years I always would tell friends, okay, this is I’m going to take this year, do some good in the world and go back to my quote unquote, regular real life.
Darcy Ataman: [00:04:40] And it just never occurred. You know, it just it never happened. The deeper you get into this work, the more impact that you might have. It’s just harder to go back to a regular life. I liken it to the movie The Matrix. When you take the red pill, the blue pill, and sort of once you make that that delineation, it’s really hard to go back. And then also to finish that is once you start going overseas to the field, like once I start traveling to Africa and realizing the issues that are that they’re grappling with are all almost directly tied to us here. So someone is suffering somewhere else in the world. It’s usually because someone else is benefiting. Once I started to see and feel that, and realizing how my daily life in Canada is actually quite adversely affecting someone else in, say, Eastern Africa, it really changes you forever. And that was, you know, without the specifics, the catalyst and making it my life’s work.
Mindy Peterson: [00:05:40] Wow. Well, I know you have some pretty dramatic experiences of being in the field, being thrown into prison, threatened with execution. I mean, you’ve had some really harrowing experiences. And it really speaks to your commitment to really making the world a better place and just the purpose that you feel and the work that you’re doing. Tell us a little bit about healing and harmonies music therapy model that you developed. How is it different from other music therapy?
Darcy Ataman: [00:06:11] Yeah, and it’s an interesting development because I really ended up sort of taking my life as a studio producer and bringing it to international development. So the traditional model of in recording back in the day in the studio was a producer and engineer. And this is what we did was just producer and psychologist. So whereas traditional music therapy and I’m not knocking another intervention or medium whatsoever. It does work to help heal one’s trauma. Healing and harmony goes a lot further in my. Well, I want to say my opinion, but we have peer reviewed medical research that shows this, So it goes a lot, lot deeper in the sense that it’s not only healing very severe trauma, that PTSD, anxiety, depression. Um, it’s also helping to regain agency back to the people that are that are utilizing it and that are healed from it. So that’s another very important part is that, you know, you can go to therapy and get healed from your your past trauma and your issues, and that’s wonderful. But if regaining one’s agency is not baked into the model, it’s it’s sort of not pointless. But, you know, you’re not having rubber meets the road. So you want to heal somebody and make sure that they again have their agency and to actually make better life choices in the future. That’s when you see community wide real changes.
Mindy Peterson: [00:07:38] So kind of like that metaphor of if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach him how to fish, you feed him for the rest of his life.
Darcy Ataman: [00:07:47] Exactly. Yeah. And he might also teach his friends how to fish at the same time. Yeah. So, you know, it can go even further. And then the, the the other piece to this, what traditional music therapy doesn’t do is that our output is brand new songs. So they’re not performing someone else’s songs or a rhythm. Part of their healing journey is they’re actually writing and recording full albums in the field, and then that goes out to the world. We have the label deal with Warner in Canada. And so all that music are huge tools of advocacy for the planet, so people can hear their stories without going through the prism of a journalist. No offense to journalists, but it’s really impactful to have people’s stories again, directly to the planet. And I think we have at least 50 albums out already. So that’s a lot of music and a lot of stories that are getting out that people normally would never hear.
Mindy Peterson: [00:08:45] And we as listeners of this podcast, we can hear those and access those where Spotify.
Darcy Ataman: [00:08:52] Every platform that music exists on now. Okay. It’s on there. So Spotify and iTunes and Apple and Deezer and Tidal and, you know, YouTube, you name it, it is on. It is on there.
Mindy Peterson: [00:09:04] And how are those found? What do we search for.
Darcy Ataman: [00:09:07] Oh just go to makemusic. Org. Okay. And click music. And then you’ll see all the links for every album and every medium that you want that’s there.
Mindy Peterson: [00:09:19] Okay.
Darcy Ataman: [00:09:19] And so with that we worked really hard. It’s taken years. But all of the we don’t call them participants, we call them artists. So all the artists in our program, they own the rights to their music even if they’re stateless. So a lot of people that we serve are essentially tragically too poor to exist on paper, like they don’t have any way that we would recognize in the Western world. You know, there’s no social insurance number, there’s no bank account. There’s no there’s nothing. There’s not even an address that you’d recognize. Okay. We developed ways where they can own the intellectual property of their music and get the royalties for it at the same time.
Mindy Peterson: [00:09:57] Oh, wow.
Darcy Ataman: [00:09:58] So that’s really, I think, impactful as as a symbol as well.
Mindy Peterson: [00:10:02] Yeah. Explain a little bit more about some of the populations that are served by Healing and Harmony. I know we talked about child soldiers, survivors of sexual violence. You alluded to HIV, Aids survivors, poverty. What are some of the other main populations that are served?
Darcy Ataman: [00:10:22] Yeah, well, two of the off the top of my head, and we have proven with our research that the provenance of the trauma doesn’t matter. So it doesn’t matter if it’s a ex-child soldier or a survivor of sexual violence. The effectiveness of Healing and Harmony is the same. So that’s I think that’s important to mention. But we work a lot in eastern Congo with. We’re very blessed to partner with. His name is Doctor Mukwege, who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2018 for sexual violence. He’s our main partner there.
Mindy Peterson: [00:10:54] And he helped develop Healing and Harmony, right? The two of you together?
Darcy Ataman: [00:10:57] Yeah. And he’s the most honest. Like, I’ve been lucky to meet a lot of impressive people in the planet. Um, he’s the most special human I’ve ever by far. And I’ve met a lot of world leaders. He is in a class all to himself, um, just as a human being. And his intelligence and humanity and humility, it’s it’s just unbelievable. Um, but we. So we work a lot there in eastern Congo. And sadly, it’s a lot of survivors of sexual violence because of the conflict, mineral trade to go off in a very quick tangent. So, you know, eastern Congo is very rich with minerals, in particular all the minerals that are in our technology. So the computers we’re talking on right now, you know, have minerals have that come from that area, and most of it is mined by, tragically, women that are violated, you know, daily and by kids that are enslaved. And they do that because it’s cheaper than wasting a bullet. So, you know, that’s really what it comes down to. It’s cheaper and more effective. So we work with a lot of survivors of sexual violence in that regard. And they’re and they’re sometimes the kids born of the incident.
Darcy Ataman: [00:12:09] And then another area that’s scaling for us right now is in Turkey and Syria. So even though that conflict is slowing down a bit, finally, you still have a lot of refugees that are pouring in from Syria, um, over the border to Turkey. So there’s a border town called Gaziantep that we work in a lot. And in those those particular young, you know, young children, they have the trauma of of the war and they have the trauma and the stigma of being a refugee, because they’re not always welcome in these neighborhoods because, you know, quite honestly, Turkey has their own own problems as well, and their neighbor is overpopulated already. So, understandably, tens of thousands of refugees pouring in all the time. Um, you know, causes more tension. So they have that stigma and shame and sometimes they’re quite targeted. They’re physically targeted. Um, and they have the physical injuries of the war as well. You know, a lot of them that have, you know, you know, you know, accessibility issues, wheelchairs and things like that. So they have a lot of strikes against them in life. But it’s remarkable what the program does.
Mindy Peterson: [00:13:21] And as you mentioned, the program has been clinically proven to help reduce depression, anxiety, PTSD in participants. Uh, I know breaking stigma and reintegration into their community is also a big focus of the program. Tell us a little bit more about how and why Healing and Harmony works, and what the process looks like.
Darcy Ataman: [00:13:45] Yeah, the process, even though our results are clinically, you know, they’re very good, they’re very impressive. And we’ve been able to test up to six months post program. And the results have stuck, which is really important because especially in these areas that still have active conflict, you know, on a daily basis, it’s easy to go to your therapy, get healed, and then a week later you’re back to where you started. Um, we’ve been able to prove the Healing and Harmony, um, six months after the level of healing is still the same, which is, you know, benefit to the person in the community. But we do it in a really fun way as the truth. We build little recording studios wherever we operate. And usually it’s me, quite frankly, that’s flying and building these places. And sometimes they’re in a hospital, you know, like in eastern Congo sometimes, um, we have mobile units in a Land Cruiser with solar panels on top of a jeep driving through villages. Okay, we we park somewhere and bring out the equipment and record and go on that way. So when the the artists or participants come into the program, you know, they don’t necessarily come in thinking, I’m here for my therapy appointment, which has a lot of stigma, still stigma here, never mind in those areas, you know, and especially, for example, if you’re a young lady and I feel awful as a man talking about this, so forgive me, but if you’re a young lady who’s a survivor of sexual violence, the amount of stigma and shame on you and your community is tremendous. So the program is actually really good because it’s not they’re not identified as that person going to the doctor for that reason. It’s oh, she’s going to this really cool studio and recording. She’s a singer.
Darcy Ataman: [00:15:39] You know, it kind of wipes that out. Yeah. And then while it’s happening, we can give them their their therapy. So.
Mindy Peterson: [00:15:47] Well, I’ve gotta believe too, that just because it is more of a fun process, you use the word fun. There’s got to be just a little bit of escapism or just something that just kind of lightens the mood a little bit and provides kind of like a portal into their psyche where they can just access some of those feelings. And I’m maybe skipping ahead here, but in the process of writing a song, you don’t have to get into graphic details about what you experienced. You can use allegory and kind of allude to things without really reliving them explicitly. So again, I’m kind of getting ahead of ourselves a little bit, but I can see how just having a little bit of lightning to life is so desperately needed and probably really helpful in this process.
Darcy Ataman: [00:16:29] Well, that’s exactly it. It’s kind of twofold. So it’s it’s what you said. Yet at the same time, that writing and recording process is a safe way to extract the trauma and articulate it to the surface. So again, sadly, everyone that we’ve worked with and actually I think our numbers have changed. I think we’re up to about 18,000 now. They all have a story that would be a Netflix series that you would never believe because it’s too outlandish. Honestly, every single one of them has a story that would just it’s unbelievable in a tragic way. So for them to talk about the incident at first, actually retraumatizes, which of course, you don’t want to do, but the musical process and the lyric writing process and the use of allegory and metaphor, actually, again, is a safe way of doing it. It’s been also clinically proven to access parts of the brain that are shut off in a normal sort of talking, conversing way. So usually this first song someone writes is the first time they’ve talked about the incident. And then once they talk about it, you know, the psychologist is in the room and we can set a treatment pathway for it because like, oh, okay, now we know what it is. So it’s again, it’s a really it’s a fun and safe way to bring up those issues to the surface. And then we can treat it basically.
Mindy Peterson: [00:17:53] And I just want to kind of interject here to I think you work with the people who have actually experienced violence and also their caregivers as well sometimes. Right.
Darcy Ataman: [00:18:05] Yes. Yes, exactly. So it depends on on the context where we’re working. Um, but for example, yes, in Turkey, a lot of times also since this young children, we’re also working with their caregivers.
Darcy Ataman: [00:18:19] And it’s twofold. One, it’s so the caregiver can understand the person that it could be their child but can understand them better, and it’s an acceptable way for them to converse. Um, two it’s it’s fatigue for the caregiver as well. You know, if you if you’re always being the caretaker for something, that’s so, again, just so extreme and so awful. Uh, that wears you down just as much, and you get your own trauma.
Mindy Peterson: [00:18:50] So most of them probably aren’t trained for recognizing this or knowing what to do with it. So if they can work with somebody who is. What a relief that must be. A little guidance and direction. So participants come into the studio, whatever that studio may look like. They work with a trained counselor and trained musician to come up with a song. Lyrics. Melody. What does that look like?
Darcy Ataman: [00:19:17] Yeah. So they’re in the studio environment and all of our operational staff are local and indigenous to the area.
Mindy Peterson: [00:19:26] And I think that’s a big part of your strategy, right? Local? Explain why that’s so important.
Darcy Ataman: [00:19:34] Well, one, it’s a lot more effective. And, you know, for example, in eastern Congo, you can drive 45 minutes to different village and there’s a different dialect spoken. And you know, we’re not going to know it. Right. You know, there’s hundreds of them literally in these little in a swath of land. So we’re not going to know it. And also there’s this subtle artistic nuances as well that you know, that, oh, they like the kick drum over here. It’s a little off for us. But they just love that okay. We’re not going to know that unless it’s, you know, you’re a local a local person. Um, and also then the, the, the model gets delivered a lot better because they understand the community. The trust is there. That’s very important. Is the trust. Uh, and then, you know, frankly, no one needs someone flying in and taking a job away in these communities either. You know.
Mindy Peterson: [00:20:30] Well, I’ve got to believe, too, that just having that local influence has really got to go a long way in terms of reintegrating people and building that sense of belonging and community and feeling like I’m not isolated. I’m not in this alone. This there’s this community behind me.
Darcy Ataman: [00:20:48] Yeah, that’s exactly it. And, you know, especially if you’re a survivor of almost any type of trauma, um, intellectually, you might know you’re not the only person in the world that’s gone through it, but you feel like you’re. You are. And I have been in the studio in these areas countless times and have witnessed somebody. That’s why we do it in groups as well. So they bond as a group. And, you know, one young person might articulate his or her experience through a song, and then they’ll the neighbor will turn to them and say, that happened to you? That happened to me. And even though statistically, you know, sadly, that it’s happened to lots of people in that area and they know that it doesn’t feel that way. So to to for it to take away that isolation piece is huge as well.
Mindy Peterson: [00:21:41] I think healing and Harmony also does quite a bit with promoting leadership within the group, within the participants, and then also after care monitoring and follow up, which is also really critical to have the local population involved in this and may be different than other more traditional forms of music therapy. You talk a little bit about those factors of Healing and Harmony.
Darcy Ataman: [00:22:06] Yeah. We’re very if you’re a person that spends any significant time in the field like I do and have done over the years, your ego should eviscerate almost instantly. Like it just doesn’t. You don’t want to be in an organization that just gets up like the numbers of we’ve served X number of people you want to make sure everyone you’ve touched has a sustainable change to his or her life, right? Again, especially if you’re spending time in the field, all the stuff about ego goes right out the door very quickly. So we’re very serious on okay. Our results are great, but how do we make sure that actually extrapolates out sustainably to a community so they’re healthy? Um, which takes a lot more work, you know, and effort. Because also a lot of these communities are fairly transient because of the economics of it. Right? So it’s not like somebody has a home address and they’re there for their lifetime. They’re, you know, they’re subsistence farmers for the most part. And that’s very transient. That’s why we do we don’t play favorites. But in each group, natural leaders do kind of emerge. And then we encourage that because then they’re part of the aftercare. Those leaders do do a couple of things which honestly happened naturally. And then we codified it. They did two things. They started to rally their groups together after the program was done, so they can keep performing the songs. And then we’d notice if they keep doing that, their healing still stays. And then they ended up being sort of natural advertisements. We didn’t. This happened countless times. They would start walking to other villages and saying, hey, you guys need this program too. It’s amazing. And that’s not something we asked them to do. It just again happened quite naturally, and then we kind of built it into our model.
Mindy Peterson: [00:24:01] Wow. So creation of the music is definitely a big piece of this. But advocating is a big piece of this too. The artists the participants become advocates and they’re their music. Their tangible product that they’ve created is disseminated throughout the world, really, not just through the live performances that they’re able to do locally, but with radio streaming platforms, social media. So I’ve I’ve got to believe that that is really healing for them to feeling like they’re not just healing themselves, but they’re making a difference. They’re increasing awareness, they’re helping to reduce stigma around whatever it is that they suffered, and sort of like that feeling of self-efficacy, like, I can have purpose in making a difference for other people, but speak a little bit about that piece of it.
Darcy Ataman: [00:24:56] Yeah. Well, I’ll, I’ll give, um, two quick anecdotes that just came to mind that I quite liked that really speak to that again in these areas, even in indigenous communities in Canada that we work in as well. You know, what you what you see is at least internally, the loss of power, the paradigm of power is shifted if you’re in an active conflict zone or a war zone, you’ve had everything taken away from you and you. You feel like you have, again, no power in your life whatsoever. But the advocacy through the songs actually helps to shift that. And it does seem it seems almost silly to say it, but it’s actually true. So two quick examples. Again, eastern Congo as a handful of years ago, there was one group that wrote this song called The Criminal Father. And it translates to basically all the men in the community that either allow the violence, the rapes to continue or do them themselves or whatever the case is in the government, that that allows the impunity of it. And this song became a little bit of a local hit on the radio in the morning in this area called Bukavu. And so the morning drive, so to speak, they’d play the song, and I was there for it. And the military Terry started to call in to complain. They did. It was absolutely true to say no, no, no, we’re the good guys. We don’t do that anymore. You know, we’re not committing the rapes. And it’s an absolute lie. Um, but it’s just fascinating that someone with the bullets is scared, with somebody with the songs like, enough that they actually would call in because, again, firsthand. And then once we told that to the women who wrote this song, like, you know, they just they literally were laughing.
Darcy Ataman: [00:26:50] Because it’s like, oh my like. But again, it instills the notion of what the definition of what power could mean.
Darcy Ataman: [00:26:57] Now they had a new definition of it, which again helps their healing and their in their agency. And I’ve seen that countless times. I’ve seen, you know, um, husbands literally called the wife that they’ve kicked out of the home because she was violated. No fault of her own, of course. Say, hey, I think I was wrong. Can you come back home? And and sometimes the women have said, nah, I’m good, you know. And that’s huge, you know, and I’ve, I’ve seen, you know, tragically, women who have had babies born with a rape start to take care of their child for the first time ever from it. Wow. So you have you have a lot of real sustainable change. And, you know, even in Canada, I won’t get too specific here. But one of our sites with indigenous population, um, there was a song about how the oil companies are decimating their natural environment that they grew up in. And for these young people to write something that powerful was, was a big step to the point where, you know, again, I got to be very vague on purpose because a lovely person, a federal politician, would not complain but kept bringing up this. Oh, I love the album. Oh, but the song about the oil, because his constituency votes, Who you know, how he gets his votes is from that. So it was kind of fascinating how this person would bring this up to me multiple times. Yeah. Again, it just goes to show like, oh, there is again, there’s a power there that’s untapped.
Mindy Peterson: [00:28:27] Well it is amazing. I mean, we tend to feel like politicians have so much power in our world, and they do. I’m not um, I’m not diminishing that. But we can tend to undervalue the power that is in us, with our communities, with community action, grassroots efforts, with media, TV, music, culture, all of those things can also really move the needle. And you’re just an amazing example of what what one person can do. Now, I know you do work a lot with partnerships. I know you said that you travel a lot. Tell us a little bit about the partnerships, the therapists you work with, the researchers, the humanitarian Professionals. I know you work with a lot of NGOs. Like how what kind of partnerships make all of this possible?
Darcy Ataman: [00:29:19] Yeah, we work with. I mean, we are an NGO ourselves. And we have our our core staff. Uh, but depending on the project site, there’s partnerships in order to do it properly. So we sometimes will partner with very large NGOs, like a World Vision, you know, to be part of a larger grant opportunity. But more specifically, we partner all the time with local groups, local community groups on the ground because you need them to implement this stuff properly. They have the relationships, you know, they know, like, okay, we need to talk to the chief. He’s in this little village. If we get his buy in, he’ll let you talk to the local health administrator. And then we’re allowed to legally hire people, you know, like you need all this logistical stuff.
Darcy Ataman: [00:30:04] Uh, and the only way you do that is local partnerships. And the only way you can do that is to be there. Like, there’s just no way. Away. I’ve yet to find why I spend so much time in the field in order to build these relationships that are going to last through the hard times, because there will be hard times, is you need the local buy in and you have to be there to build it. You know you will not get the trust if you don’t show up to somebody’s home, so to speak. Yeah. You just you just can’t do it over, over email or whatever the case is.
Mindy Peterson: [00:30:34] Well, classic example of it’s not what you know, it’s who you know. Yeah. And there’s a lot of truth in that. If listeners are listening to this and think, I would like to get involved in what is happening here, what are some ways that people can get involved, whether it’s through partnerships or other opportunities?
Darcy Ataman: [00:30:52] Yeah, we’re always looking for obviously new communities we can work in that will allow us. We never force ourselves anywhere. The community has to want you there. So if there is, you know, people out there that have, um, ends with these local community based organizations somewhere that has a need, you know? And of course, like any other charity NGO, we’re always fundraising every day. That’s just how it goes. So people can go to Makemusic. Org and if they’re from Canada they can click donate instant tax receipt or on the website. There’s also Makemusic matter USA and they can do the same.
Mindy Peterson: [00:31:28] Registered non-profit here in the US. So donating. I think you have a spot too on your website where you can get more information on volunteering.
Mindy Peterson: [00:31:38] It’s a volunteer partnerships. Um, there’s a newsletter you can sign up on the homepage to scroll, scroll down to the bottom and put your email address in there. You can stay in touch through social media and kind of stay informed on what you’re doing and what needs are what accomplishments are in. Exciting things are happening to celebrate. So lots of really great information on your website. I can vouch for that. When I was looking through that, um, lots of great information there.
Darcy Ataman: [00:32:07] Even just checking out the music, you know, going to the website, going through the links, there’s again, there’s a lot of music out there and enjoy it.
Mindy Peterson: [00:32:16] Well, it’s so inspiring to hear what you’re doing to make the world a better place. I mean, it can be so easy for us in westernized culture, developed worlds to get very comfortable in the bubble that we’re living in. And so it’s inspiring to hear what you’re doing just through reading some news articles and thinking, why am I not hearing this in my news? And what can I do about it? So really admire that. Appreciate that. I want to close with a quote of yours from your website that really resonated with me. You said when people are deprived of justice, they create their own language of hope and healing. The best way to express this is through art in music. I wholeheartedly agree with that. Love that. Any last words you want to share with listeners before we close out with a coda.
Darcy Ataman: [00:33:09] When we’re talking about just wanting to know what’s going on in the world in a broader sense, and knowing these stories, there is a really strategic importance to this. Is that as cliche as it sounds, the world is shrinking daily because of technology. So the highest penetration rate of cell phones in the world is Africa. So even in the poorest areas in Africa, or where the most active conflict zones, you have these pay as you go cell phones. And that’s happening everywhere. And because of that, there’s a huge again, I’ve noticed a massive difference in the last number of years. Whereas before there was a bit of a separation in a bubble. So you could kind of do the work. I would come home and there’d be, again, a separation of it and a bit of a ignorance to it. But because of the technology en masse, people in those areas now understand their part in the equation of the world. They know, for example, my eight year olds are literally a slave in a mine breaking rocks, which I’ve seen personally. So you can have your latest iPhone, which I admit I have one as well. And that is an absolute truth. And because of that, it’s happening upon the millions and millions. Now there’s a growing resentment and anger, understandably. You know, that’s how terrorism is going up before, you know, if you were a humanitarian worker in the field, you’re almost untouchable, like no one would do anything. But that is absolutely gone now because of these issues, because the world, because these, again, the most struggling parts of the world and now understand it and they know they’re suffering because of someone else’s benefiting. And that’s going to cause the world massive problems coming very quickly. So I think it’s a lot easier to keep friends than to have to defend yourself against an enemy later on.
Mindy Peterson: [00:35:03] Yeah. And it’s so important for us to connect the dots of how our purchases and our lifestyle and our actions are impacting people across the globe.
Mindy Peterson: [00:35:13] Well as you know, I ask all my guests to close out our conversation with a coda. Do you have a song or story you can close us out with, or a moment that music enhanced your life?
Darcy Ataman: [00:35:26] Well, I have, I would. I have countless amazing. I’ve been to this concert sort of stories on a personal level, but, um, if you want to bring it back to to the work and it is music related. Uh, one of the really impactful ones that just stuck with me from a few years ago was, um, our work in Uganda and we’re, you know, working in a little village there. And there was a, there was a group of about, I think it was either 14 or 16 ladies that wrote to me and they said they were all former sex slaves of the Lord’s Resistance Army rebel group in that part of northern Uganda, and they had escaped, and they were planning to commit mass suicide because they thought, what’s the point? We’re going to get captured again at some point soon. What’s the point of even living? And we don’t want to go back to that life. And, um, yeah, I’m a hit at dinner parties, but sorry. So they wrote to me to say that was their plan. And then they went through the program and they healed and got their agency back. And they wrote to me to say, we decide not to go through with it because of it.
Darcy Ataman: [00:36:40] And that’s and the reason why I say that is not because, oh, look of our great work. That’s not the point of it. The point of it is we think of music as kind of innocuous a lot of times, and that’s just not true. I mean, that is like, look at that power. You know, so that’s why I want to tell listeners, because no music can actually delineate life and death in these areas.
Transcribed by Sonix.ai