Disclaimer: This is transcribed using AI. Expect (funny) errors.
Mindy Peterson: [00:00:00] I’m Mindy Peterson. And this is Enhance Life with Music, where we explore the practical ways music transforms everyday life, health, happiness and beyond. Imagine if there was a pill that alleviated the symptoms of dementia. It allowed patients to communicate again, brought back words, recognition, joy, and also reduced falls and pain. Improved rehab and surgical outcomes was inexpensive and reduced reliance on antipsychotic meds. We would rush to prescribe it for every person with dementia. That pill already exists, except it isn’t in pill form. It is familiar beloved music, and it’s being used every day at certified Music & Memory organizations around the world. Families are getting their loved ones back, even if just for sacred moments. Music & Memory is a service of the Institute for Music and Neurologic Function and its Director of Programming, Justin Russo, is with me today. Welcome to Enhance Life with Music, Justin.
Justin Russo: [00:01:09] Thanks so much, Mindy. It’s great to be here.
Mindy Peterson: [00:01:12] Justin, i first became aware of Music & Memory probably about ten years ago when I first saw the documentary Alive Inside. I’ll put a link to this documentary in the show notes. Listeners, if you haven’t seen it, do yourself a favor and watch it. It’s incredibly impactful. It’s an award winning documentary that showcases the work of Music & Memory and really, truly captures the transforming power of music for people with dementia. I mean, it’s heartwarming, but it’s also almost eerie to see how some of these people who are virtually unresponsive can literally come alive when they hear music that was impactful and important to them in their youth. So Music & Memory has been on my radar for a while, and I thought this would be an especially timely season to highlight it for listeners. Since we’re entering the holiday season when so much familiar music will be playing, love it or hate it, and people are likely to be gathering with family and loved ones. So starting out, can you give listeners just a basic understanding of what Music & Memory is and how the program works?
Justin Russo: [00:02:21] Sure, sure. So Music & Memory started about 2010 with this understanding that the music we love the most, uh, is embedded in both our conscious and unconscious brains. And in fact, we take that music with us throughout our entire lives. Now, as amazing as that idea is on its own, it’s even more amazing when the functioning of the brain begins to deteriorate as it normally happens during the aging process, but especially for people living with dementia and other types of physical and cognitive loss. This is amazing because for those people, um, you can use those very same favorite songs to stimulate cognition, to stimulate the brain. Um, allowing them to converse and socialize. Sometimes remember family members names. Um, and to just have more access to themselves. So Music & Memory really began around this idea of offering this as a tool in senior care.
Mindy Peterson: [00:03:23] And you offer this in the form of I think it started out as iPods, but I don’t know if iPods are being used anymore. So it’s personal playlists that are created individually for people in various facilities or at home. And explain a little bit more about how it works.
Justin Russo: [00:03:41] Sure. So we train healthcare staff and now communities hub staff as well to to use personalized music, favorite music playlists, um, to support quality of life for seniors in residential care or receiving care at home. And what we found is that if you play someone their favorite songs. Again, these are their favorite songs from their formative years, roughly ages 12 to 25. You can really bring them back, you know? And it’s an amazing process to see. And of course, if you have seen Alive inside and thank you for for throwing that out there.
Mindy Peterson: [00:04:17] Oh yeah.
Justin Russo: [00:04:17] Definitely recommend watching the movie.
Mindy Peterson: [00:04:19] Yeah. You never forget what you see once you watch that.
Justin Russo: [00:04:23] You really don’t. It’s really amazing. Um, and we continue to show clips from Alive Inside in our training when we work with staff, because it really showcases what outcomes you can achieve when you offer someone their favorite music. And it’s it’s really it’s become a wonderful non-pharmacological intervention that you can use to support quality of life. Of course, the effect doesn’t last forever. When you’re supporting someone in that way, but it usually lasts about 45 minutes to an hour, you know? Um, but during that period of time, you can support very specific outcomes. And that’s the other part of what we do during our training, is we talk about how proactive and consistent application of this music can help someone’s nutrition. They help them to maintain a healthy weight. Help them to fall asleep. Help them to transition between environments. So there are all these, um, outcomes that care staff are always trying to achieve as part of a person’s care plan. And music, as it turns out, is a wonderful vehicle to help them get there.
Mindy Peterson: [00:05:28] Love that. And this programming, this training, the resources Music & Memory provides are available for assisted living communities, hospitals, hospices. Caregivers at home. Any other demographic that you want to make sure? Um, we mention that it really takes advantage of these resources.
Justin Russo: [00:05:50] Well, so we we started training nursing homes in the beginning. But since that time, um, we’ve, as you said, we’ve moved on to hospice organizations, end of life care, hospitals, now assisted living, and now community hubs to adult day centers are getting certified. And we’re also starting to work with libraries, which is really exciting too. Supporting supporting patrons in the community with dementia. So and I think I think it’s a it’s a great fit. Libraries are a great place to offer programming to for older adults.
Mindy Peterson: [00:06:23] Okay. So this is when older adults are coming into the libraries as part of a sort of field trip from their facility, or they’re coming in just wandering in from the community.
Justin Russo: [00:06:34] Well, usually.
Mindy Peterson: [00:06:35] And may not and may not have the support that they need. And so library staff are being trained in some of these techniques.
Justin Russo: [00:06:41] Exactly. So I mean, you know, there are a lot of people aging in place at home who don’t yet need the support of skilled nursing home or assisted living, but who may go with a family caregiver to the library. And yeah, there they can receive a variety of different types of supports from the library. They have a lot of different tools, and there’s often programming that’s specific for older adults at libraries. And so Music & Memory is a great fit there.
Mindy Peterson: [00:07:10] Yeah, I could see that being really great. I mean, when my kids were young, I loved going to storytime at the library, partly probably because it combined two loves of mine reading and music like they usually had some kind of music and activity, like moving with music involved in storytime. But I could see how that would be also a really great program for older adults.
Justin Russo: [00:07:32] We think it’s a great fit, and you know, you don’t need a dementia diagnosis to receive dementia services at a library too. So it’s an amazing fit. Sure. And we’re we’re excited to move into that area. And as you mentioned, we also train, um, home care staff to, you know, because for for every person with dementia in residential care, there are 3 or 4 more who are aging in place at home with some type of dementia, and there are millions of older adults in the United States alone who would benefit from this?
Mindy Peterson: [00:08:03] Yeah. Talk to us a little bit about why music. Why is music so effective in this way? We know that music memory is one of the last to fade away, which is one reason it is effective in these situations. What is it about personalized music that makes the difference neurologically and emotionally for patients? Can you explain what’s happening in the brain when someone with dementia hears a favorite song from their past?
Justin Russo: [00:08:29] Sure, sure. So there’s just something special about our formative years when it comes to the way we interact with music when we’re teens. Right. The music we love the most just embeds itself into every single part of our brain. And this has a lot to do with neuroplasticity, or rather, the degree to which our brains can respond to external stimuli. This is at its height, right? So the music we’re listening to is really getting in there and it tends to stay. And this has a lot to do with emotional memory. There’s a lot of emotional memory being generated during this period of our lives, and that makes a lot of sense, right? If you think about it, we’re kind of coming of age. Everything’s super important. So the music we’re listening to is very important too, and all of us. And studies have shown that all of us predictably return to this music that captured us during our adolescence. I’m certainly one of those people, you know, if you play me anything from the 90s, uh, I’m dating myself a little bit here, but if you play me any 90s music, you know, it’s really going to resonate with me and that. And that’s what makes it so important later on in dementia care, because that music is still there and using the same songs, uh, as an outside stimulus, you can you can connect with the brain and help the person connect with themselves in ways that they weren’t. They won’t be able to do on their own. So it’s really amazing the way it boosts cognition. And if you’ve seen any of the clips on our website, or if you’ve seen alive inside, you can see how amazing that is, to see people come alive and suddenly be able to to draw deep from their own experiences, to have that much more access to their own memories. It’s really amazing. And the music does that. The music brings it out through these music. Uh, music memories, basically.
Mindy Peterson: [00:10:14] A key component of of music and memories effectiveness is that personalized music. But it’s also it’s used according to evidence based best practices. Can you explain what some of those best practices are and what what caregivers should be aware of to use music safely and effectively? And if there’s early signs that a playlist is working, or that it needs to be adjusted.
Justin Russo: [00:10:38] Depending on where someone is in the aging process, um, you know, the results can vary. Um, you know, if you’re working with someone who is very early on in the aging process, who you maybe you can have a conversation with about their favorite music, you’ll see responses to be more immediate. Um, you know, they’ll. You’ll see. Tapping fingers, uh, you know, singing along, reminiscing. And when you hear them talking about memories, then you know, you’ve found some of the right music. I was working with someone just yesterday. Um, who? You know, we played some music from the 50s, and she immediately started talking about listening to the radio with her sisters and how important that was to her. So I knew immediately that that was one of those songs because it triggered a memory for her. And that’s how you know you’re getting there. But when we talk about evidence based use, we’re really more talking about how to use the music for clinical value. Um, so if you’re supporting someone in residential care or at home, if you’re if you’re trying to help someone maintain a healthy weight, for example, if you use the music proactively, maybe 30 minutes before meal time, you’ll see much better results in terms of their nutrition.
Justin Russo: [00:11:56] It’ll allow them to recognize food, recognize the food more easily to chew, and in some cases even swallow for late stage dementia. And it also tends to alleviate some of the anxiety that happens around the eating experience. So and nutrition studies have shown that when people are listening to their favorite music before meals, they’ll actually eat more and do better. So it’s pretty amazing in terms of how you can support these specific activities of daily living or ADLs, as they say in senior care. And another example is transitioning between environments, which is can often be overwhelming for someone with dementia. Right? But if you again, if you play the music about a half hour before they get into a vehicle or go get get ready to go for a walk, they’ll be more present. They’ll be more able to recognize the caregiver and the care that’s being given to them, offered to them. So it makes going to a noisy medical waiting room more manageable for them, right? Because they’re in that they were in that immersive headphone environment reliving those memories. And just when they come out, they just have more access to themselves.
Mindy Peterson: [00:13:04] Sure. Well, I imagine too, you could sort of supercharge that effect by if you find a song that really works, maybe playing the same song before every meal, so that it’s also kind of cueing the resident. Oh, it’s meal time, or using the same song before transitioning to a different environment so that it kind of cues them to that. Is there any truth to that?
Justin Russo: [00:13:28] Absolutely. And that’s the other part of what we teach is we teach the proactive use and the consistent use as part of a care plan. So we believe that if you use the music consistently throughout the day, you can really maximize the impact of the music. It gets better the more the more you use it. So and what I mean by consistent use is for, for example, if someone Sundowns has instances of afternoon agitation, if you know that they typically sundown around 4:00 pm If you have it in the care, plan to offer the music around 330 every single day, you can usually avoid that episode entirely.
Mindy Peterson: [00:14:06] Wow. Right now we’re mid-November. We’re entering that most nostalgic season of the year, and whether you love it or hate it, holiday music is everywhere. So listeners don’t always have control over what they’re hearing. What do you want listeners to consider specific to this time of year, when a lot of times emotions are running high? We don’t always have control. Like I said over the music that we’re hearing. How can families thoughtfully use music during this season to spark connection rather than you mentioned the the tendency to overstimulate or overwhelm?
Justin Russo: [00:14:42] I appreciate this question. I come from a large Italian family, so very, very loud all the time. Uh, hard to be heard, um, and overwhelming. So if you’re there’s so much wonderful Christmas music out there and so many family memories of togetherness are linked to Christmas music. I know that’s very true for me. Um, if you play John Denver and the Muppets Christmas together, if you’re familiar, this is going back a ways. Um, everyone in my family will will turn around and just gather around and just start singing together. It’s just an important album for us. But if you’re thinking about making a playlist, focus on maybe 2 or 3 favorites for each person. You know, don’t go crazy with filler things that you know might be good for this aspect of the, you know, the event or or not. Um, I would say just find something that each person would appreciate and have that on your playlist for Christmas. I think that because if you take the time to think about what each person would like, that’s that’s part of the gift to them. Um, when we work with seniors to find their favorite music, a process we call becoming a music detective. You’re doing just that. You’re sitting with them, sampling music, asking questions about their past. You know, in order to solve this musical favorites mystery and really find 15 or so songs that really matter to them, the songs that really trigger memories and light them up. So you can do this with family members too. You can think about the music that matters to them, maybe a specific memory that’s meaningful to them, and you can add that song to their playlist.
Mindy Peterson: [00:16:26] I have a similar response to Christmas as a season. The music, what you have. I mean, I just have wonderful memories of the holidays. My birthday is around that time, and my mom always did a great job of making my birthday separate from Christmas and making it a distinct holiday. So that whole season just feels like a magical time. But I also recognize there’s plenty of people who have the exact opposite response to the holiday season to Christmas to music related to that season. They hear it and it triggers the exact opposite response. They have bad memories of that time, and it makes them think of stress and trauma and parents fighting over the kids because the parents are split up and, you know, things like that. So what do you want listeners to be aware of? If they are, they have a loved one who has some cognitive deficiencies, dementia or something else. And that person becomes more agitated when they hear certain holiday songs.
Justin Russo: [00:17:29] So this is a question we hear a lot. And I think it’s a really good question to answer. Um, you know, this it’s often the case, not often, but sometimes the case that when you play someone music, it’s it’s not going to trigger a positive memory. It’s going to trigger something that was maybe painful in their past, just as you illustrated in the short term, we do think it’s a good idea to stop the song, but in the long term, our experience is that it can often lead towards the positive eventually because it can be cathartic for that person, you know. I’ll give you an example. So we were I think I was playing music for a group in senior care, and a gentleman was, I forget the song, but he just stood up and left in the middle of it. Um, and he was very distressed. And so we, we stopped the song and continued the programming. And then afterwards, when I spoke to him, he was very clear, you know, he said this, this, this was my, my, my friend’s song. We were in the Marines together. And it just reminds me of when he died in the war. And it was just really hard. And the more he talked about it, the more he wanted to listen to the song again. So by the end of the conversation, he had he had kind of taken back the memory and and it just ended up being a very positive experience for him in the long term.
Mindy Peterson: [00:18:51] It’s kind of like a redemptive power.
Justin Russo: [00:18:53] A little bit.
Mindy Peterson: [00:18:54] Yeah. Song. Oh, interesting.
Justin Russo: [00:18:56] So, you know, again, in the short term, you know, if music creates like a bad response, you know, definitely try something else in the short term. But it’s always worth a conversation to see where that came from if they’re comfortable with it.
Mindy Peterson: [00:19:09] Interesting. Talk to us a little bit about the economic feasibility of the Music & Memory approach. I know there was a recent study that came out, um, kind of a joint effort between AARP and Neuro Arts Blueprint Initiative that I found very excited. I know you’ve referenced it in an article that you wrote that I loved. Um, but talk to us about sort of how much it costs for facilities to implement Music & Memory. So whether it’s the training or the gear, like I said, we’re probably not using iPods anymore, but whatever, whatever we are using now and how much does that implementation save facilities on average when we’re talking about maybe fewer prescriptions, faster recovery time with rehab or surgeries, maybe less volatility with the sundowning or other times and experiences, things like that. And of course, this is completely not taking into effect the immeasurable value of the quality of life increase that we’re getting from this approach. But talk to us a little bit about the economics of this.
Justin Russo: [00:20:16] So the the, the economic analysis that you’re referencing was published by the Neuro Arts Blueprint sponsored by AARP. And this I think really for the first time, they talk about ROI of music engagement and music therapy. And, you know, we’ve known for a long time that this is true, but there’s that there is a return on investment for this type of work. You see it not only in the outcomes that you talked about, right? The downstream effects on hospitalization and rehab and falls and things like that. But you also see it in staff retention. You also see it when staff stick around, when they’re when the when the burnout rate drops. Because, you know, it turns out that offering music in this way is just as beneficial for them. And that’s that’s really something we love talking about, too, because what tends to happen, especially with Music & Memory programs, is that it can really shift. It can create these paradigm shifts within the organization and really boost the culture and give everyone just much more of satisfaction in terms of working there. It gives them a purpose. You know, senior care staff have tough jobs, right? Trying to connect with people that are difficult to connect with. And this is one of those tools. Music is just one of those tools that really allows them to do that in a very person centered way. So so we’ve known that this return on investment has been there, but to see it now be officiated, if you will, um, is really meaningful. So if you I think the analysis cites that if you for every dollar spent on music therapy or music engagement care, you receive $2.40 in return, which is pretty amazing and great to see. We were so happy to see that Music & Memory remains.
Mindy Peterson: [00:22:00] And I think it also allows for an additional $0.70 per dollar benefit for caregivers.
Justin Russo: [00:22:05] For those reasons. Right, exactly.
Mindy Peterson: [00:22:07] Yeah.
Justin Russo: [00:22:07] So it’s really wonderful to see that we’ve waited a long time for that. Um, Music & Memory, in terms of the tools that are out there, is definitely one of the more affordable, um, our training for unlimited staff is $1,000 and that’s, you know, we’ll train 100 staff for that amount. So it’s very affordable. Um, and for just 1 to 5 staff, I think it scales down to $600 for the training. And the equipment is very affordable, too. You mentioned the iPod. The iPod series was discontinued in 2019, but many certified Music & Memory certified organizations continue to use older devices, and there’s now a large community of donors who just continually send us their used devices, and then we just send them out to homes in need. Ah, but MP3 players, um, are still very popular. But now we’re seeing a lot more streaming players and even voice activated devices, which is pretty exciting. Yeah, there’s there’s no easier way to make a playlist than just asking Alexa to do it for you.
Mindy Peterson: [00:23:11] Yeah, definitely. One other statistic I’ll just throw out there, too, while we’re on this topic is there’s a really great short film, I think, on your website. It’s called healing with Harmony. It takes place at NYC Health Plus Hospitals. Kohler is that how you pronounce that? Okay, so it’s the largest long term care facility in the system, and the system is the largest municipal healthcare system in the US. And according to that film, since they adopted Music & Memory, their use of antipsychotic meds declined by 12% and there had been no fights or falls. So that’s a pretty amazing statistic that I just wanted to make sure I mentioned.
Justin Russo: [00:23:58] And for anyone who watches the video, you’ll see how happy the staff are too. They’re all dancing together and just having a great time. Um, and those results, the 12% drop in antipsychotic medication that’s consistent with most Music & Memory certified organizations. There was a large study done in California in 2020. I think it was over 41 residents in about 250 California nursing homes. And they found the same results drop in antipsychotic and anti-anxiety medication by about 15 to 20%.
Mindy Peterson: [00:24:31] Just wow.
Justin Russo: [00:24:32] Um, I think a 12% drop in reported chronic pain. And get this, a 20% drop in distressed behaviors, 20%, which is amazing when you consider how easily these situations can compound into a fight or a fall. So if you can get ahead of that distress, it’s it can be very impactful, not just for the participant, but for quality of care at the organization.
Mindy Peterson: [00:24:57] Yeah, well, and I’m sure part of that compounding effect is the fact that when people are on these antipsychotic meds, those meds do have side effects, unlike the music that they’re listening to. Those do have side effects. And so if you’re able to reduce your meds or even eliminate the need for them with certain patients, you’re getting rid of all those side effects as well.
Justin Russo: [00:25:17] I couldn’t agree more. And, you know, I’m putting on my advocacy hat here a little bit. You know, we really think that this is a wonderful non-pharmacological alternative to those medications which are continue to be overprescribed and do have their own set of side effects, which often can be detrimental. We also see a lot of people really benefit from the music in a lot of different ways, and it can really just put, if nothing else, it’ll put a smile on someone’s face.
Mindy Peterson: [00:25:47] Oh for sure.
Justin Russo: [00:25:48] As we always say too, it’s really the gift that gives twice. Because not only are you supporting all these different outcomes, you’re providing an alternative to medication, but you’ve taken the time to get to know someone and the music that really makes them who they are. That’s pretty special.
Mindy Peterson: [00:26:02] Yeah, well, you may be introducing yourself to some new music that you weren’t familiar with or a new genre.
Justin Russo: [00:26:10] So part of what we believe is to really make this a universal part of healthcare. That’s our mission. You know, we really want to see music be talked about in care plans and care plan meetings. Have we tried music with this person yet? We don’t. We know it can’t replace traditional medication, but we want to. We want health care staff to at least recognize it enough to try it first, because it might be all you need. Yeah. Now, for caregivers at home, I do want to stress that if you do see unwanted behaviors, it’s important to understand the source of those behaviors. You know, Music & Memory is great for mild chronic pain because it helps people. It helps to take them away to to distract them from the pain. But that’s it’s usually helpful to know the source of the pain before you do that. If someone has agitational wandering or they’re living with chronic pain, you need to really know the source before applying the solution. So before using music, understand why they’re in pain. Because music might not always be the best way to handle the situation. I always like to offer that.
Mindy Peterson: [00:27:12] Absolutely. Good reminder before we totally leave that topic of that short film, healing with Harmony, I want to mention just one quote that really caught my attention. I think it was a doctor that they were quoting who was being filmed, and he said, music is a wonderful vehicle to get in touch with a person’s humanity. And I thought, oh wow, what a great way to phrase that. Loved that. Tell us about some of the resources that are available on Music & Memory site. I know there’s a lot on there. There’s an interactive map where people can find certified locations near you. There’s over 5800 worldwide. There’s a really cool link to get started creating a personalized playlist for a loved one at home. There’s ways to get involved, whether it’s volunteering your time, donating equipment which I imagine includes some of those MP3 players contributing funds. But tell us about some of the other resources that you want listeners to know about that are available on your site.
Justin Russo: [00:28:13] So volunteers are really play a vital role at Music & Memory, not not just in supporting our certified organizations, but often bringing news of Music & Memory to healthcare sites. And historically, volunteers have really helped us spread across the country. You mentioned we’re now in 5800 sites across the US. We’re in every state. 29 states have made Music & Memory part of policy thanks to their efforts.
Mindy Peterson: [00:28:41] Excellent.
Justin Russo: [00:28:42] Yeah. Uh, Wisconsin in 2015 had every single one of its nursing homes certified. Texas has certified over 1000 organizations. And they’re still going. And Texas actually shout out to Texas. They’ve dropped their antipsychotic rate by 58% in the last ten years as a result.
Mindy Peterson: [00:28:59] Of how many years.
Justin Russo: [00:29:01] Over the last ten years, as a result of using music, memory and programs like it.
Mindy Peterson: [00:29:05] So wow.
Justin Russo: [00:29:06] It can really have an impact. And, you know, volunteers play a role. And if anyone’s interested in volunteering, um, just come to our website, check out the map that you mentioned, um, and try and find an organization near you that maybe you could volunteer at helping to create personalized playlists for an older adult, or maybe collecting gently used iPods or other MP3 players for their program. There are just a lot of ways to get involved. You know, you mentioned our free playlist guide. You know, if nothing else, just go on to the website and download that guide and share it with someone you love, especially for the holidays. If you’re going to be meeting with a grandparent or an older parent, um, it’s a wonderful way to get closer to that person, especially during the holidays. And it’s totally.
Mindy Peterson: [00:29:52] That could be a great activity to do and just great conversation starter.
Justin Russo: [00:29:56] Absolutely. And it and it offers tips for how to support different outcomes throughout the day and how to really maximize the use of the playlist. So definitely check that out at Music Memory. Org if you get a chance.
Mindy Peterson: [00:30:07] I think you mentioned too that you have a new caregiver resource and maybe some short videos. Can you just tell listeners a little bit about that?
Justin Russo: [00:30:17] Sure. We’ve got two new videos that are up on our YouTube. Um, the first is selecting music for your Music & Memory program, which is useful for anybody who’s just interested in what equipment might be better for their loved one. You know, often it’s the case that headphones can cause distress for older adults. Sometimes the wires can be frustrating or they just aren’t comfortable. They don’t recognize the headphones and they don’t want to wear them. So we offer some advice for how to work with the Bluetooth speaker, and also how to really understand the different types of hearing loss that you may be experiencing when attempting to offer the music. So for anyone interested in that, just check that out on our social media. We’ve also got a brand new video, five outcomes that you can achieve using personalised music playlist. I’ve talked about 1 or 2 of them, but we cover five concrete steps that you can take to support someone with dementia with a personalised music playlist. So if you have a chance, definitely check that out on our website.
Mindy Peterson: [00:31:17] Excellent. Well there are there are so many stories we’ve already alluded to that are featured on the Live Inside film, on that healing with Harmony and Music and Memories website. Do you have a personal favourite story about the power of music transforming someone’s life, whether it’s related to the holidays or not?
Justin Russo: [00:31:36] I do. I wanted to mention that Chevy Chevrolet actually put out a commercial last year. Um, that I think is really great. And if you and for the folks listening, if you haven’t, going to YouTube and Google for for Chevy Christmas commercial. Um, it’s a really powerful well written commercial. They did a good job. It shares the story of, of a of an older adult who’s being supported by her young granddaughter. And they, they just go for a drive around, of course, in an old Chevy and listen to John Denver and, uh, and she sort of, you know, the music sort of triggers her cognition. And by the end of the ride, she’s able to recognize her husband, and they have a wonderful Christmas together. So that’s not my story, but I wanted to share that.
Mindy Peterson: [00:32:24] Um, yeah, I’ll look for that and see if I can find it. If I do, I’ll put it in the show notes.
Justin Russo: [00:32:28] So I have a memory. Um, that’s really special to me. So when I was 15, I was allowed to go to the Dutchess County Fair in upstate New York for the first time alone. Now, this was a big deal, right? Uh, so I just have this fond memory of walking into the the fair, the fairgrounds, through the gates in this sea of teenagers, right at night, just with the lights above us, and we could hear the noise of the rides in the distance and the games and just all of us flooding in together and walking towards the rides. I saw in the distance, this Viking ship swinging back and forth. Remember that ride, you know?
Mindy Peterson: [00:33:14] Oh, yeah.
Justin Russo: [00:33:15] And and above it all was playing guns N roses. Sweet child of mine. Right. I know, funny, funny choice. But, um, if you. I’ll never forget that. And if you play me that song now, I’m right back there. I’m 15 again. It’s 1990. I’m walking in through those gates. Feeling like my life is opening up, you know, for the first time. Because it was really one of the first things I was allowed to do by myself. And the nice thing about it is, is I can just return to that memory anytime I want. I know where to find it. Just listen to some guns N roses.
Transcribed by Sonix.ai