Disclaimer: This is transcribed using AI. Expect (funny) errors.
Mindy Peterson: [00:00:00] I’m Mindy Peterson, and this is Enhance Life with Music, where we explore all the ways that music can make our lives better. The mental health and levels of depression in our young people are significant issues right now here in the US and globally. When we talk about tools in this context, we often think about therapy and medication, which are both important. There is another tool that doesn’t get as much air time. It’s almost like a stealth tool, but it is accessible to almost every young person. They’re already using it in some way, shape, or form, and they want to be using it. They want it in their life. And that tool is music. Music can be a source of comfort, connection, and emotional expression. But when someone is struggling with depression, can the music they choose actually make them feel worse? Are there ways for us to harness music Intentionally to help young people understand and regulate their emotions. My guest today is Doctor Sandra Garrido, an award-winning researcher at Western Sydney University whose work explores the fascinating relationship between music and depression. She has a background in both music and psychology and is the creator of MoodyTunes, an app that helps young people understand and regulate their emotions and their mental health with music. She’s also a pianist, violinist, and author. Welcome to Enhance Life with Music, Doctor Garrido.
Sandra Garrido: [00:01:38] Hi, Mindy. Thanks for having me.
Mindy Peterson: [00:01:41] So great to have you. Starting out with the big picture: can you let us know how prevalent is depression among adolescents and young adults today? And what do we know about the particular challenges that this age group is facing? And maybe qualify what age range exactly we’re talking about when we say adolescents and young adults.
Sandra Garrido: [00:02:04] Yeah. I guess, uh, the work that I’ve done is mostly focused on sort of 13 to 18 year olds. Um, so that’s the group that I’m thinking about, but really it does these mental health challenges that young people are facing today does start younger. And of course, it affects, you know, young people who are older than the age of 18, you know, into early adulthood really as well. Um, as for prevalence, the statistics differ slightly depending on where you’re reading it and which country you’re thinking about. But, um, you know, anywhere from sort of 40 to 60% of young people seem to have or be experiencing some sort of mental illness and potentially more really because so much of that is underreported in young people. Um, what we do know for sure is that in a country like Australia and many other countries around the world, suicide is actually the leading cause of death in young people. And according to the World Health Organization, it’s the leading cause of disability as well. So it’s not only having an impact on their life expectancy, but their quality of life in the meantime, how they’re able to function in the world. I find those statistics really, really disturbing, as I’m sure you do as well.
Mindy Peterson: [00:03:28] Yes.
Sandra Garrido: [00:03:29] Yeah.
Mindy Peterson: [00:03:29] 30 or 40 to 60%. And you said 40 to 60% are experiencing mental illness. So that encompasses depression and other. Yes as well.
Sandra Garrido: [00:03:42] Yes. And it may be something that is going to be ongoing in their life, or it may be something that’s transient. You know, it may be sort of an episode of depression that doesn’t become a lifelong affliction. Um, but yeah, basically, uh, you, the media spoke about this kind of secondary pandemic after Covid in that mental health, even before Covid, it was a big problem for young people. But that seems to have only accelerated since Covid.
Mindy Peterson: [00:04:11] Are we seeing it decelerate at all now that we seem to be beyond most of the Covid related effects with mandates, um, isolating all of that?
Sandra Garrido: [00:04:23] Well, the interesting thing is, I don’t know that we are seeing it decelerate in Australia. We did have a little bit of time where it dropped from being the leading cause to the second leading cause, but then it’s sort of come back again. So there’s really fluctuating numbers, I guess, that are not the same across every country, but safe to say it is one of the biggest things that’s impacting young people. Um, in Australia we’ve had all these big health um campaigns from the government around water safety because, you know, swimming is a big part of life. So water safety, making sure your kids can swim well. We’ve had all these big campaigns around road safety, making sure that people are not speeding and that kids know the dangers of drink driving. Billions of dollars going into these health safety campaigns. But those are not the things that are threatening the lives of our children, really, of our young people. So, you know, we put so much energy and thought into making sure that they’re safe in other ways. But really, it’s mental health that is the biggest threat against young people these days.
Mindy Peterson: [00:05:32] Wow. Well, and as you’re talking about those percentages, 40 to 60% of children, young people in that age group experiencing mental health issues and depression, the thought that I’m having is, boy, even though a listener or myself may be thinking, well, I’m not in that age range or my kids are, but they’re not experiencing these issues with percentages like that and statistics like that. We’re all encountering people who are in that demographic where they’re experiencing depression. They’re experiencing mental health issues, whether it’s our children, specifically the peers that they have, whether we’re teachers and we’re working with those age groups and that demographic, whether it’s our neighbors or people in our community, like we’re all impacted directly, I’m sure, by somebody who fits that description.
Sandra Garrido: [00:06:26] Yeah. And look, I mean, mental health is a challenge for, for all age groups, really. But the thing that’s so crucial about us giving attention to the fact that young people are so badly affected, is that this is a key time in their life where they’re developing their skills in all sorts of areas, but it’s also the time when they’re developing their emotional skills. So it’s kind of like the one time in their life when we’ve got the opportunity to step in and really make a difference to the trajectory of their life, is this going to become a lifelong issue that impacts their well-being and quality of life across their whole lifespan? Or is this going to be something that they learn to manage well so that it doesn’t have such an impact on their life? So it’s, you know, really a crucial time that young people need our support.
Mindy Peterson: [00:07:21] Definitely. That’s a really insightful perspective. One of the things that I referenced that makes your research so fascinating is that you’re looking at something that young people are already doing. They’re listening to music. How do young people typically tend to utilize music when they’re experiencing sadness or depression? And which of these uses or applications are helpful, and are any of them harmful?
Sandra Garrido: [00:07:48] Yeah. Okay. So the statistics show that young people are already listening to a lot of music every day, probably more than the average adult, just because they’ve got the time and they enjoy it. So music is a big part of the lives of young people anyway. But when they’re experiencing an episode of depression or something like that, they’re the amount of time they spend listening to music can double. So it can end up being up to ten hours a day. So if you can imagine a young person who’s, you know, maybe ticking along, normally they’re attending school, everything’s good, they’re still listening to music every waking moment. So it’s maybe around 5 to 6 hours a day. But then suddenly their mental health takes a bit of a nosedive and they may stop attending school. They may stop doing social activities with other young people, and they’re self-isolating and staying at home. Um, they may then end up listening to music all day. And so their music listening may end up around 10 to 12 hours a day. And that is what young people tend to do. The research shows they’re turning to, they’re increasing their gaming. They’re increasing their music listening. They’re increasing their time spent online. Um, when they’re experiencing episodes of depression, that seems to be the coping strategy that they’re turning to. So you can see how my mind immediately goes to the fact, well, we’ve got this great opportunity to use music. It’s what they’re naturally turning to when they’re feeling depressed. So how can we use that as a way to really make sure that they’re supported.
Mindy Peterson: [00:09:30] When they’re increasing their use? Are they tending to listen to more sad music more? Are there any patterns that are fairly typical?
Sandra Garrido: [00:09:42] Yeah, I guess across all age ranges, the pattern that we see is that when people are feeling low. They go for music that matches their mood. So we seem to be naturally attracted to music that matches our mood. And there are good biological reasons for that. Um, obviously we don’t know all of the science behind this 100%, but some of the theories about why are we attracted to sad music when we’re feeling sad is that sadness is actually an adaptive emotion. It doesn’t feel pleasant at the time, but it’s a healthy emotion to experience because, um, it motivates us to have a look at our lives and think about what’s not working. What do I need to fix here? What do I need to improve? So it’s an adaptive emotion because it motivates humans to improve things in their environment and in their lives. So on some level, our brain rewards us for kind of sitting with our feelings of sadness and indulging them a little bit, because we’re supposed to be engaging in problem solving and reflecting on our situation and thinking about what changes we’re going to make. And so for a lot of people, when they’re drawn to sad music in that situation, it’s quite a helpful thing because they’re doing that and they may end up, um, they sort of get to the end of that process and they’ve, they’ve worked out a plan. They think I’m going to do this and, you know, that’ll make things a little bit better and.
Mindy Peterson: [00:11:18] Then use the music to work through something rather.
Sandra Garrido: [00:11:21] Than.
Mindy Peterson: [00:11:21] Deny it.
Sandra Garrido: [00:11:22] Yes. And so they, they feel better. But the problem is when you have clinical levels of depression, or you have the sort of thinking patterns that are predictive of somebody developing clinical depression, those processes can backfire. And so our brain is still Rewarding us for indulging in the feelings of sadness and sitting with them. But the thought processes aren’t productive and aren’t, um, as helpful as they are for somebody else. So the key thing that I’m thinking of here is rumination, which you sure? Yeah. So rumination is that tendency that we have to sort of think about our negative emotions, but it’s particularly in a negative way. So it’s really just kind of cycling over these negative thoughts. And it can be very difficult to break out of that. So if someone’s a ruminator and their brain is saying to them, you’re feeling sad, you need to listen to some sad music and, you know, feel your feelings. The music can actually just make them get stuck in those cycles of negative thinking. Whereas for somebody else, it’s a good period. It’s a, you know, a good tool, as you put it to reflect and to process and to work through and come out the other side. But it doesn’t always work for people who have that ruminative thinking pattern. Um, and they are often the people that are prone to sort of clinical levels of depression.
Mindy Peterson: [00:13:02] Ah. So listening to sad music sounds like it can help motivate us and propel us to get through that dark tunnel, get through to the other side, process those feelings and get some traction. It can also be a situation where we’re just spinning our tires in the mud and not moving at all, but just getting more and more stuck in a rut. So I totally get that and hear that. Tell us about MoodyTunes and where that comes in and where the idea came from. Tell us about this app that you developed.
Sandra Garrido: [00:13:39] Okay. So we, um, we had done all this research about how young people use music to manage their emotions, and we had discovered some of the patterns of for using music that seemed to be healthy and some that seem to be unhealthy. And we thought, well, generally it looks like even for depressed people, even though we’re attracted to sad music, if you can find music that kind of is a little bit happier, it seems to work better. So we thought, well, let’s just prescribe happy music for everybody. Everybody listens to happy music. Problem solved. Right? So we did this experiment where we allocated, um, a group of young people to either listen to a happy music playlist or a sad music playlist. And we measured the effect on their mood of listening to it regularly over a four week period. We also got them to keep diaries of their thoughts when they were listening to this music. And what we found was it didn’t work trying to prescribe music to people, because it’s not about the actual music, it’s about the thoughts. So I’ll give you an example. And this is directly from an example, directly from the diaries that we got people to keep in that study. Um, we had a sad music playlist and there was a song by Adele on there who is the queen of breakup music as we know. Right? So there were these two different participants who had been allocated to listen to that playlist, and they both chose to listen to that song.
Sandra Garrido: [00:15:14] And they had both been through a breakup recently. One of them, the thoughts that she recorded in the diary, she listened to the Adele song and then she, she was thinking things like, I’ve been through this really tough period. This breakup was really hard and I’m feeling really sad. But I know that this is just temporary. I know that it’s just because I wasn’t with the right person for me, and I’m going to concentrate on looking after myself for now and in the future, I will meet the right person and I will find love. And you know, things will be better in the future. That person reported feeling better after listening to Adele reflecting on her breakup. Listen to Adele felt better. The other person listened to the same song, had also recently been through a breakup, but the thoughts that they were thinking was something along the lines of why has this happened to me? I’m unlovable. Nobody is ever going to love me. I’m always going to be lonely. This is just going to keep happening for the rest of my life. And I’m, you know, I’m always going to be alone. And they didn’t feel better after listening to Adele. So we realised it’s actually not about the song, it’s about what the person is thinking when they’re listening to it.
Sandra Garrido: [00:16:34] And that is just too individual for us to be able to prescribe any particular music to anyone. So the idea behind MoodyTunes. We then sat down with a group of young people and said, here’s what our research has shown us. What can we do with this? Like, how can we develop this into something that will help young people? And they came up with the idea of MoodyTunes. So rather than the app telling you this is what you need to listen to, or generating some kind of music for you based on algorithms or anything like that, it helps you to track the effect that the music you choose is having on your mood, so that you can just become more aware of what works for me and what doesn’t. And so that you can start thinking about and noticing the thoughts that are triggered by particular songs. And it actually uses processes that come from cognitive behavioural therapy to get people to start sometimes challenging the reality of those thoughts. Um, so it’s like a very subtle form of cognitive behavioral therapy for people who want to dig into their responses to the music that deeply. And for those who don’t want to go that deep. It’s just a way of discovering what works for them and what doesn’t work for them, rather than just sort of going back to the usual habits of what they listen to.
Mindy Peterson: [00:18:06] Yeah, I love that. I love how it provides a spectrum depending on where they are. It just kind of meets them where they are, how deep or shallow they want to go or feel capable of going in that moment. And I also love how it’s not just prescribing a playlist to them, but it’s educating them, paying attention to how their music choices affect them. And that’s sort of that, uh, analogy of if you give a person a fish, you feed them for a day. If you teach him to fish, you feed him for the rest of his life. So this way you’re educating students. You’re helping them become aware of how various songs are impacting them. And then from there, they can kind of extrapolate how to utilize music to, to cope and regulate their own moods. Can you walk us through what this actually looks like when a young person is using MoodyTunes? I think it sort of layers over Spotify and some other streaming services. Explain how that works.
Sandra Garrido: [00:19:05] Yeah. So firstly, I should say it’s very much a work in progress, and we’re working on all sorts of ideas to upgrade the tech. So um, I would, but.
Mindy Peterson: [00:19:14] It is available now. I believe it is available now.
Sandra Garrido: [00:19:17] Yes.
Mindy Peterson: [00:19:18] And it’s constantly being upped. Okay. So it’s available for free. It’s available for Apple and Android to the general public and is constantly being tweaked and improved.
Sandra Garrido: [00:19:30] Yeah, yeah. So at the moment, um, it prompts the user, uh, sort of at the beginning of each day to record their mood for the day. And then when a baseline mood. Yes, exactly. Okay. And then whenever they listen to music on Spotify, it then prompts them to record on the spot. The effect that that music has had on their mood. And the reason why that’s so important is because we found in our research that when you ask people later, how did that song make you feel? They sort of tend to rely on what they think it should have made them feel, rather than what it actually did make them feel. When you ask them in the moment, what is this making you feel? The response is quite different to what it is. If you ask them a little bit later, what did it make you feel?
Mindy Peterson: [00:20:23] That’s interesting. And you wouldn’t.
Sandra Garrido: [00:20:25] Think.
Mindy Peterson: [00:20:25] It’s that way, but when you really stop and imagine yourself in that situation, I can totally see how that would be the case.
Sandra Garrido: [00:20:32] Yeah. Because again, our brain is rewarding indulging in the sadness. And so on some level, we’re aware that there are good reasons for doing that. And so if you ask someone, did that sad music make you feel better? They’ll go, oh yeah, of course it did. Like that. That helps when I do that. Then if you ask them in the moment, how is this making you feel? They’ll go, it’s making me feel terrible. I’m thinking this, I’m thinking that. So there’s a real need for people to just be aware in the moment. What is this doing to my mood? What thoughts is this bringing up and is this helping? So they record that in the moment. And then the algorithm in the app then is able to distinguish which songs they’ve listened to that have actually had a positive impact on their mood. And it automatically creates what we call a feel better playlist that they can then pull out at any stage. Um, but then the app also prompts them if they want to, to start digging into their response to particular songs a little bit more with just these sort of self-reflection type questions. Um, you know, getting them to sort of think through the thoughts that were coming up. And, um, again, as I said, using some of those cognitive behavioral techniques to start becoming more aware of automatic thinking patterns that might not 100% be the only way of looking at a situation.
Mindy Peterson: [00:21:56] Well, and I could see this being so helpful for in so many and so many different layers for young people, including the layer of this being almost like a gateway to additional therapy that they may not recognize their need for, or admit their need for, or be open to accepting help from until they’ve used this app, which is very accessible. It’s non-threatening. They can do it very privately. And maybe after utilizing that app for a while and sort of developing their awareness of how music is affecting them and, and maybe really coming face to face with how they are feeling that may open them. Have you seen that happening? Or that opens them up to accepting further therapeutic help?
Sandra Garrido: [00:22:46] Yes. We haven’t we haven’t measured whether or not they’ve, um, you know, gone on to get other forms of help directly. But we ran a study, uh, sometime last year where we had about 70 young people use the app for or was it 90 young people or something? Use the app for about four weeks. And one of the strongest findings, they had reduced stress and anxiety after using the app over four weeks. But the strongest finding was big increases in mental health literacy. And so mental health literacy of course is, um, understanding about mental health. It includes knowing when and how to get help. And so big increases in That suggests that young people are better equipped to manage things on their own, but also have a better understanding of when and how to get help when they need it. Which to me is a really big achievement if that’s all we can achieve. I’m really satisfied with that, even if it just works for one person, let alone 90. I feel like that’s a good achievement.
Mindy Peterson: [00:23:51] Absolutely. And you mentioned stress and anxiety. That’s a much more mild feeling and emotion than depression. And if we include the numbers and the statistics of young people who are experiencing stress and anxiety, I’m sure that percentage of 40 to 60 jumps way up, especially when you get into the age group where they’re experiencing that transition from living at home and being in high school, to going off to college and starting college and moving away and being on their own for the first time, and being with this whole new group of people where they don’t really know anybody. So I’m thinking this could be incredibly helpful for students, even if they’re not experiencing depression and sadness, but maybe just anxiety. I mean, I know so many other kids in my life, whether it’s relatives or friends, friends, kids, you know, whatever, who aren’t clinically depressed, but they have anxiety. And I, as you’re describing this app, I could see this being really helpful for them.
Sandra Garrido: [00:24:52] Yeah. And even with depression, we did find decreases in depression as well. We weren’t measuring clinical depression. We were we were measuring more depressed mood over that time period. Um, but the thing with depression is sometimes you may not pick up really huge shifts in depression because it is such a, an entrenched chemical thing for many people. But if you can imagine a young person who is severely depressed, Perhaps even thinking of taking their own life. We don’t think we’re going to be able to cure that with music, but if you can just improve their symptoms a tiny bit, you may not see that in the statistics. It may not be a big enough change to measure in the statistics. But if you can just improve that a little bit and just bring things down to the point where it’s a bit more bearable for them, that’s amazing. That’s, you know, that’s really great.
Mindy Peterson: [00:25:57] Absolutely. Well, you mentioned this 2025 study that was studying students after four weeks of using the app. Were there any other results from that study that you want to mention?
Sandra Garrido: [00:26:11] I think that was really the main thing. Um, we’ve done lots of work with young people since then. Of course, to get a better understanding of where they’d like us to go with the app. And we found during developing of the app. Just so many interesting things about how young people respond to not just music, but other sensory information like the visuals in the app and things like that. So, um, there’s definitely a lot more that we’re working on, um, wanting to improve. And I guess given those findings about stress and anxiety, like at the moment, we’ve, we’ve got what we call a feel better playlist. It’s really only got the capacity to sort of build that one playlist, which can help them to feel better in any, any way that they want. But one of the plans going forward is to, um, building the capacity for the algorithm to automatically create playlists that work for lots of different sort of mood states that the individual might want to achieve. So, you know, if they want to focus better when they’re studying, that could be a separate playlist if they need energizing so they feel motivated to get to the gym or whatever, that would be something different. So, um, that’s one of the things that young people have been telling us that they would, they would really like to be in there.
Mindy Peterson: [00:27:36] Ah, that’s fun to hear. Sort of what’s next for.
Sandra Garrido: [00:27:39] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mindy Peterson: [00:27:41] You, you mentioned a moment ago that you’re not looking to music to be curing clinical depression just for us to be responsible in this conversation, talk just briefly about what MoodyTunes can realistically accomplish and what it can’t. For example, we’re not looking at this to be a substitute for professional mental health care, but just speak briefly to that.
Sandra Garrido: [00:28:08] Yes, absolutely. It’s definitely not designed as a crisis management tool or as a substitute for any other form of treatment. Um, in fact, the whole aim of the app is to encourage young people to get that professional help and to understand when they might need that. And we’ve got, um, special little icon we call the care icon, which the young people designed as well, which is up in the right hand corner on every screen in the app, which can direct people to that professional support whenever they wanted, whenever they want it. So.
Mindy Peterson: [00:28:48] Wonderful. And I love that you designed this app with young people because there’s so many things, whether it’s architecture of schools or other things. There’s so many times that things are designed without the end users and the full stakeholders input. And it’s so I love that you designed this with young people, and I’m sure you learned so much from them. Absolutely. Process.
Sandra Garrido: [00:29:12] Yeah. When I think about what my ideas for it were before we worked with young people, I realized I would have gotten it all wrong had we not consulted these young people yet. And so that is ongoing. For us, we’re continually talking to young people about where we should go, what it should look like, and really consider them to be the experts in in their own mental health, rather than us oldies telling them what to do.
Mindy Peterson: [00:29:42] Excellent. I want to point out to that on your website. So this is MoodyTunes.com dot a UAU. There are really many, many great resources and topics on your site. So I’m talking about topics like what’s the difference between depression and sadness? How does music help? Should I listen to sad music? What kind of music can help me sleep? How do diet and exercise affect my mood? Should I listen to music while I’m studying? Like so many different topics that are so helpful for students to be reading and just educating themselves on. So I love that.
Sandra Garrido: [00:30:23] Yes. And those articles have all been written by people who are experts in that particular topic area. Um, you know, have a PhD in research in that area or are a youth psychologist or something along those lines. So it’s really, um, yeah, reputable sources.
Mindy Peterson: [00:30:41] Beautiful. What other research is ongoing or upcoming in this area? Is there anything that’s exciting you a lot right now about where research on music and mental health is headed?
Sandra Garrido: [00:30:54] Yeah. I guess where my mind has gone is to the fact that so often young people these days are not well, the trend is towards consuming music in video form for young people rather than just audio. So Spotify is still the largest platform, but the second biggest is YouTube. So people are watching, you know. Young people are watching these videos. So I’ve really become interested in how the visual aspect comes into that. When you’re combining the music with the visual aspect. Um, you know, how does that work together? And I think I mentioned before when we were developing MoodyTunes, we had so much interesting information that came from young people with depression about how colors influence their mental health and things like that. And when we dug into the scientific literature to look at what is known about that, there’s actually surprisingly little. There’s all this kind of folklore out there about it, but very little kind of scientific research. So we’ve been conducting a bit of research in recent years about how things like color and visual composition, you know, symmetry and balance in, in, in complexity, in images and things like that may also impact to people with depression differently to the way it impacts other people, and whether or not that’s something we also need to take into account when we’re developing any sort of, um, mental health materials and things like that. So I guess, you know, that’s the other area that I’m really interested in is beyond just music that’s consumed only in auditory form. How do our research findings and our programs and interventions extend into that space where it’s combined with visual stimuli?
Mindy Peterson: [00:32:45] Yeah, that is really fascinating. I hadn’t thought about that, but as you were describing it, I was thinking even when I listen on Spotify to music, depending on how the screen is displaying in my on my phone, I’m thinking about when I’m driving. So I have the hands free little holder for my phone. And depending on how Spotify, the app is displaying the screen, sometimes there are these short videos that sort of loop as a certain song is playing, so.
Sandra Garrido: [00:33:13] Or at least there’s an image, isn’t there?
Mindy Peterson: [00:33:15] Sure, sure. Yeah, yeah. So that that is really interesting. Well, another question I want to ask you before I let you go. I, as I mentioned, I work with a lot of college music faculty who are deeply concerned about the mental health of their students. What do you think that college faculty should understand about depression and young adults today, and do you have any specific advice for them?
Sandra Garrido: [00:33:40] Yeah, we’re actually one of the other things we’re working on at the moment is developing some programs that can go into high schools and colleges and university faculties for young people. I did run a workshop with some university students a few weeks ago about, um, you know, this, this whole topic, really just encouraging them to do that sort of self-reflection. Um, and I’ve just published a chapter in a book which is all about well-being in, in tertiary education contexts. And I’m reading the chapters by the other author. And it’s just really is bringing home to me that our, our college and university students are really struggling. And it’s super important for faculty to be aware of that. Um, something that I was reading just yesterday was saying that we really should be thinking of universities and colleges as not just providing education in whatever topic we’re teaching, but providing education in mental health because we want, because nobody is going to be able to apply their learning in science or engineering or law or whatever if they’re incapacitated by their mental health challenges. So it becomes part of the normal education. This is really, um, you know, the direction that we should be moving in when it comes to music. Um, the programs that we’re working on for, um, teachers and educators is around training them to understand how they can empower their students, not just with musical skills, but with emotional skills that come through understanding music and really sort of capitalizing on the potential for what they’re teaching their students to, you know, contribute to their well-being over time as well. So yeah, that’s something we’re really aware of going forward.
Mindy Peterson: [00:35:39] Yeah. Thank you for that. Well, this has been so delightful. Sandra and I just love this app that you’ve put together. I hope a lot of people will take advantage of that. Of course, we’ll have lots of links in the show notes to the iTunes website where people can learn more about it and download it. As you know, I ask all my guests to close out our conversation with the musical ending Coda. By sharing a musical tool you wish more people knew about. And we’ve really just been talking about a musical tool. I mean, typically I say this could be a book or a blog, an app. Um, so we, we’ve already discussed MoodyTunes. I don’t know if there’s another tool that you want to mention or just a final thought that you want to leave us with in closing today.
Sandra Garrido: [00:36:21] Yeah. Look, I think, I think absolutely MoodyTunes would be the one that, that I would, um, recommend, uh, I guess the final little message, my little coda, whenever I do these sorts of talks, I suppose, is to just encourage people, whatever their age group might be, to use music intentionally and to really reflect on how music impacts their mood. So much of the media that we consume, including music today, is fed to us by algorithms, and we can easily fall into the trap of just passively consuming without thinking about the impact that this stuff has on us. And those algorithms don’t care about your well-being. They care about keeping you on the platform. So just, um, really increasing our own self awareness about the impact that things are having on our mood so that we can take back control over the algorithms a little bit and listen a little bit more intentionally, whatever type of media we might be consuming music or videos or whatever it is. I think that that’s probably my, my parting words of advice to most people on this topic.
Mindy Peterson: [00:37:41] Well said. And the thing I really appreciate about that is it’s empowering.
Sandra Garrido: [00:37:46] It’s yeah.
Mindy Peterson: [00:37:48] It’s tapping into self efficacy, which is important to all of us. We’re not a victim of the algorithm on a given platform, but we do have control. We have a choice. And we can take action and be intentional about everything in our life, especially the music that we’re choosing to listen to. So love that. Thank you.
Sandra Garrido: [00:38:09] Exactly.
Transcribed by Sonix.ai